Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ or Continental DWS06 ?
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edyvw
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Originally Posted By: krzyss
Originally Posted By: edyvw
As for PSS, not sure anything helps RAM with braking!
Empty bed! Less weight. ;-)
Krzys
Nah, I was watching once some show, I think it is just brakes.
No, but point is he is talking about 4/32. When it comes to braking it is compound, not depth of tire.
Everyone is so worried about moving forward in winter. So what, you get stuck, people help you, whatever. When you cannot brake that is what is pita.
All Season vs. Winter tire video
Originally Posted By: edyvw
As for PSS, not sure anything helps RAM with braking!
Empty bed! Less weight. ;-)
Krzys
Nah, I was watching once some show, I think it is just brakes.
No, but point is he is talking about 4/32. When it comes to braking it is compound, not depth of tire.
Everyone is so worried about moving forward in winter. So what, you get stuck, people help you, whatever. When you cannot brake that is what is pita.
All Season vs. Winter tire video
Originally Posted By: Rand
So edyvw.. a question which tire do you run when its 65F in the day and 28F at night?
Or am I supposed to switch tires twice a day
Those winter tires put you at risk in 50-70 or higher deg F weather due to poorer handling and reduced traction on wet/dry roads. So either change them for that one day, or run the risk of being the cause of a crash on your "safe" winter tires. That's the same argument applied to those who try to drive on A/S tires in winter where the odds of a snow day are fairly slim. And if it does snow, they drive slower and more cautious.
So edyvw.. a question which tire do you run when its 65F in the day and 28F at night?
Or am I supposed to switch tires twice a day
Those winter tires put you at risk in 50-70 or higher deg F weather due to poorer handling and reduced traction on wet/dry roads. So either change them for that one day, or run the risk of being the cause of a crash on your "safe" winter tires. That's the same argument applied to those who try to drive on A/S tires in winter where the odds of a snow day are fairly slim. And if it does snow, they drive slower and more cautious.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Rand
So edyvw.. a question which tire do you run when its 65F in the day and 28F at night?
Or am I supposed to switch tires twice a day
Those winter tires put you at risk in 50-70 or higher deg F weather due to poorer handling and reduced traction on wet/dry roads. So either change them for that one day, or run the risk of being the cause of a crash on your "safe" winter tires. That's the same argument applied to those who try to drive on A/S tires in winter where the odds of a snow day are fairly slim. And if it does snow, they drive slower and more cautious.
Performance of winter tire at 70 degrees is nowhere near as bad as performance of A/S tire compare to winter tire on ice or snow.
I would say difference in braking is similar like difference between A/S and summer tires, since A/S tire is still compromise in summer.
You just gonna drive slow and more cautious? Do not understand how accidents then happen since in snow and ice everyone drives slow and more cautious.
Like I mentioned before last year we had 64 car pile up on i70 Eastbound that happened while traffic was moving at speed of 30mph in 65 zone. I guess by that logic, I they drove 20 mph accident would not happen? or it would?
Originally Posted By: Rand
So edyvw.. a question which tire do you run when its 65F in the day and 28F at night?
Or am I supposed to switch tires twice a day
Those winter tires put you at risk in 50-70 or higher deg F weather due to poorer handling and reduced traction on wet/dry roads. So either change them for that one day, or run the risk of being the cause of a crash on your "safe" winter tires. That's the same argument applied to those who try to drive on A/S tires in winter where the odds of a snow day are fairly slim. And if it does snow, they drive slower and more cautious.
Performance of winter tire at 70 degrees is nowhere near as bad as performance of A/S tire compare to winter tire on ice or snow.
I would say difference in braking is similar like difference between A/S and summer tires, since A/S tire is still compromise in summer.
You just gonna drive slow and more cautious? Do not understand how accidents then happen since in snow and ice everyone drives slow and more cautious.
Like I mentioned before last year we had 64 car pile up on i70 Eastbound that happened while traffic was moving at speed of 30mph in 65 zone. I guess by that logic, I they drove 20 mph accident would not happen? or it would?
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Performance of winter tire at 70 degrees is nowhere near as bad as performance of A/S tire compare to winter tire on ice or snow.
Exactly.
Plus, warm-and-dry are the conditions in which it's the least bad to compromise some ultimate grip.
Performance of winter tire at 70 degrees is nowhere near as bad as performance of A/S tire compare to winter tire on ice or snow.
Exactly.
Plus, warm-and-dry are the conditions in which it's the least bad to compromise some ultimate grip.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Everyone is so worried about moving forward in winter. So what, you get stuck, people help you, whatever. When you cannot brake that is what is pita.
Exactly.
Add changing direction to braking.
Krzyś
PS If one drives in winter in 0-70F weather maybe winter performance tires are better compromise?
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Everyone is so worried about moving forward in winter. So what, you get stuck, people help you, whatever. When you cannot brake that is what is pita.
Exactly.
Add changing direction to braking.
Krzyś
PS If one drives in winter in 0-70F weather maybe winter performance tires are better compromise?
Originally Posted By: krzyss
PS If one drives in winter in 0-70F weather maybe winter performance tires are better compromise?
If it snows a lot, then yeah, maybe -- though I don't see how much snow would accumulate if the temperature regularly swings that much (correct me if I'm wrong).
Otherwise, this would be one of the rare cases in which a solid all-season or all-weather tire would be the best option.
Either way, I wouldn't worry too much about tread life in a situation like this. All that heat cycling will turn those tires into rocks long before you reach the wear bars!
PS If one drives in winter in 0-70F weather maybe winter performance tires are better compromise?
If it snows a lot, then yeah, maybe -- though I don't see how much snow would accumulate if the temperature regularly swings that much (correct me if I'm wrong).
Otherwise, this would be one of the rare cases in which a solid all-season or all-weather tire would be the best option.
Either way, I wouldn't worry too much about tread life in a situation like this. All that heat cycling will turn those tires into rocks long before you reach the wear bars!
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: krzyss
PS If one drives in winter in 0-70F weather maybe winter performance tires are better compromise?
If it snows a lot, then yeah, maybe -- though I don't see how much snow would accumulate if the temperature regularly swings that much (correct me if I'm wrong).
Otherwise, this would be one of the rare cases in which a solid all-season or all-weather tire would be the best option.
Either way, I wouldn't worry too much about tread life in a situation like this. All that heat cycling will turn those tires into rocks long before you reach the wear bars!
In CO you might have foot of snow one day, and tomorrow it is gone. Problem is that that foot creates conditions that day that are typical mountain blizzards. Do not forget, big cities in CO sits on altitude between 5600ft and 8000ft.
On top of that, if you go to mountains you really need something capable to get you over passes, and get you down from passes.
Originally Posted By: krzyss
PS If one drives in winter in 0-70F weather maybe winter performance tires are better compromise?
If it snows a lot, then yeah, maybe -- though I don't see how much snow would accumulate if the temperature regularly swings that much (correct me if I'm wrong).
Otherwise, this would be one of the rare cases in which a solid all-season or all-weather tire would be the best option.
Either way, I wouldn't worry too much about tread life in a situation like this. All that heat cycling will turn those tires into rocks long before you reach the wear bars!
In CO you might have foot of snow one day, and tomorrow it is gone. Problem is that that foot creates conditions that day that are typical mountain blizzards. Do not forget, big cities in CO sits on altitude between 5600ft and 8000ft.
On top of that, if you go to mountains you really need something capable to get you over passes, and get you down from passes.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
But does the temperature swing that far and back in a short period of time?
Last night I came home at 10.30 it is -7 degrees (f) and today it was almost 60!
Go figure.
But does the temperature swing that far and back in a short period of time?
Last night I came home at 10.30 it is -7 degrees (f) and today it was almost 60!
Go figure.
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Hey N/M, did you get anything yet? Lots of good varying advice, you just need to pick from above. CO I would advise going any non-Blizzak (they wear and handle like a gum eraser off snow) winter setup on 15s (thinner higher profile like pizza cutter vs rolling pin mud truck flotation) and the Mich A/S 3+ for everything else. Any of the regular winter Mich/Pirelli stuff will kill it over a/s and still handle on pavement reasonably well while lasting longer than Blizzaks. But then you outlined simple around town trips, so the General Altimax a/s might be a choice. I'd still prefer winters in CO.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...sti#Post4273409
Have had way too many tires so know enough about them.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...sti#Post4273409
Have had way too many tires so know enough about them.
Last edited:
Hi all:
A heart-felt belated thanks for all the input and thought put into your replies. I am inclined to go the three season/dedicated snow tire route. I had thought it would be much more expensive to do that (which it is upfront) but considering you save the three seasons during the winter and save the winters during the three season, it actually is a pretty close match between the four season route and the three season/winter season route on a cost per year basis. That being said, I had a few questions to run by the board:
1. It seems folks feel the Blizzaks are superior in deep snow to the Michelin X Ice 3 but are "mushy" on dry roads. What do folks mean by "mushy"? Since there are plenty of dry days in winter in Denver, I'm not sure whether to opt for the Blizzaks (and get the superior deep snow traction) or the Michelins (and get an apparently better dry road behavior).
2. I read somewhere (and wish I could find that link now) that steel wheels are better in winter because they are heavier and lead to less "rebound" and therefore punch through the snow better. Yet, tire rack was baffled when I asked them about that AND the weights of the steel wheel they have vs. the alloys wheel (which I prefer) is actually about the same - about 22 pounds. Any comments on this?
3. Regarding wheel size for my winter tires, I understand minus sizing is a good idea. I was planning on minus sizing from my stock 17" to 16" because I can get the Michelins in a 195 55 16 with 24.4" diameter (their 15's are 205 60 15 with 24.7" diameter and I thought the increase from 195 to 205 wouldn't make sense). However, with the Blizzaks, Bridgestone said a 195 55 16 with 24.4" diameter or 185 65 15 with 24" diameter would work. I understand that my stock 17's with the 215 45 17 have a 24.65" diameter and both manufacturers made their recommendation to stay as close to stock wheel diameter as possible. Therefore, should I favor the Blizzaks because I can get down two sizes to the 15's and a 185 or would either brand choice in the 16's be adequate?
4. Finally, regarding my three season tires, I think I should stick to the OEM W rated tires. I think I narrowed it down to the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3 plus and the Conti DWS06. It seems the Conti's have a better proven snow performance (in case they are on the car before I get my snow tires swapped over) but the Michelins have better ride quality and perhaps wearability (many reviews on tire rack mentioned quick tread wear on the Conti's). Any preference between the two or is it time for a coin toss here? I also looked at the Dunlop Signature HP one member mentioned but this tire didn't seem to get the same high marks as the other two choices mentioned.
A heart-felt belated thanks for all the input and thought put into your replies. I am inclined to go the three season/dedicated snow tire route. I had thought it would be much more expensive to do that (which it is upfront) but considering you save the three seasons during the winter and save the winters during the three season, it actually is a pretty close match between the four season route and the three season/winter season route on a cost per year basis. That being said, I had a few questions to run by the board:
1. It seems folks feel the Blizzaks are superior in deep snow to the Michelin X Ice 3 but are "mushy" on dry roads. What do folks mean by "mushy"? Since there are plenty of dry days in winter in Denver, I'm not sure whether to opt for the Blizzaks (and get the superior deep snow traction) or the Michelins (and get an apparently better dry road behavior).
2. I read somewhere (and wish I could find that link now) that steel wheels are better in winter because they are heavier and lead to less "rebound" and therefore punch through the snow better. Yet, tire rack was baffled when I asked them about that AND the weights of the steel wheel they have vs. the alloys wheel (which I prefer) is actually about the same - about 22 pounds. Any comments on this?
3. Regarding wheel size for my winter tires, I understand minus sizing is a good idea. I was planning on minus sizing from my stock 17" to 16" because I can get the Michelins in a 195 55 16 with 24.4" diameter (their 15's are 205 60 15 with 24.7" diameter and I thought the increase from 195 to 205 wouldn't make sense). However, with the Blizzaks, Bridgestone said a 195 55 16 with 24.4" diameter or 185 65 15 with 24" diameter would work. I understand that my stock 17's with the 215 45 17 have a 24.65" diameter and both manufacturers made their recommendation to stay as close to stock wheel diameter as possible. Therefore, should I favor the Blizzaks because I can get down two sizes to the 15's and a 185 or would either brand choice in the 16's be adequate?
4. Finally, regarding my three season tires, I think I should stick to the OEM W rated tires. I think I narrowed it down to the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3 plus and the Conti DWS06. It seems the Conti's have a better proven snow performance (in case they are on the car before I get my snow tires swapped over) but the Michelins have better ride quality and perhaps wearability (many reviews on tire rack mentioned quick tread wear on the Conti's). Any preference between the two or is it time for a coin toss here? I also looked at the Dunlop Signature HP one member mentioned but this tire didn't seem to get the same high marks as the other two choices mentioned.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
1. It seems folks feel the Blizzaks are superior in deep snow to the Michelin X Ice 3 but are "mushy" on dry roads. What do folks mean by "mushy"? Since there are plenty of dry days in winter in Denver, I'm not sure whether to opt for the Blizzaks (and get the superior deep snow traction) or the Michelins (and get an apparently better dry road behavior).
When you steer, you want the car to react in a positive, crisp, predictable way. What you say here suggests that the X-Ice Xi3 is better in that respect.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
2. I read somewhere (and wish I could find that link now) that steel wheels are better in winter because they are heavier and lead to less "rebound" and therefore punch through the snow better. Yet, tire rack was baffled when I asked them about that AND the weights of the steel wheel they have vs. the alloys wheel (which I prefer) is actually about the same - about 22 pounds. Any comments on this?
The snow thing sounds like bunk.
If the weight is the same, get the cheaper wheel. But you should be able to spend just a few more bucks per wheel and get lighter alloys.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
3. Regarding wheel size for my winter tires, I understand minus sizing is a good idea. I was planning on minus sizing from my stock 17" to 16" because I can get the Michelins in a 195 55 16 with 24.4" diameter (their 15's are 205 60 15 with 24.7" diameter and I thought the increase from 195 to 205 wouldn't make sense). However, with the Blizzaks, Bridgestone said a 195 55 16 with 24.4" diameter or 185 65 15 with 24" diameter would work. I understand that my stock 17's with the 215 45 17 have a 24.65" diameter and both manufacturers made their recommendation to stay as close to stock wheel diameter as possible. Therefore, should I favor the Blizzaks because I can get down two sizes to the 15's and a 185 or would either brand choice in the 16's be adequate?
Tough call, but staying close to stock OD is important. If there's no 15" size that'd get you closer to a 24.65" OD, I'd go for one of the 195/55/16 tires. I'd go Michelin, but the Blizzaks should be good, too.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
4. Finally, regarding my three season tires, I think I should stick to the OEM W rated tires. I think I narrowed it down to the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3 plus and the Conti DWS06. It seems the Conti's have a better proven snow performance (in case they are on the car before I get my snow tires swapped over) but the Michelins have better ride quality and perhaps wearability (many reviews on tire rack mentioned quick tread wear on the Conti's). Any preference between the two or is it time for a coin toss here? I also looked at the Dunlop Signature HP one member mentioned but this tire didn't seem to get the same high marks as the other two choices mentioned.
Michelin, no question. With a winter set, the DWS06's margin in the snow is useless.
1. It seems folks feel the Blizzaks are superior in deep snow to the Michelin X Ice 3 but are "mushy" on dry roads. What do folks mean by "mushy"? Since there are plenty of dry days in winter in Denver, I'm not sure whether to opt for the Blizzaks (and get the superior deep snow traction) or the Michelins (and get an apparently better dry road behavior).
When you steer, you want the car to react in a positive, crisp, predictable way. What you say here suggests that the X-Ice Xi3 is better in that respect.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
2. I read somewhere (and wish I could find that link now) that steel wheels are better in winter because they are heavier and lead to less "rebound" and therefore punch through the snow better. Yet, tire rack was baffled when I asked them about that AND the weights of the steel wheel they have vs. the alloys wheel (which I prefer) is actually about the same - about 22 pounds. Any comments on this?
The snow thing sounds like bunk.
If the weight is the same, get the cheaper wheel. But you should be able to spend just a few more bucks per wheel and get lighter alloys.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
3. Regarding wheel size for my winter tires, I understand minus sizing is a good idea. I was planning on minus sizing from my stock 17" to 16" because I can get the Michelins in a 195 55 16 with 24.4" diameter (their 15's are 205 60 15 with 24.7" diameter and I thought the increase from 195 to 205 wouldn't make sense). However, with the Blizzaks, Bridgestone said a 195 55 16 with 24.4" diameter or 185 65 15 with 24" diameter would work. I understand that my stock 17's with the 215 45 17 have a 24.65" diameter and both manufacturers made their recommendation to stay as close to stock wheel diameter as possible. Therefore, should I favor the Blizzaks because I can get down two sizes to the 15's and a 185 or would either brand choice in the 16's be adequate?
Tough call, but staying close to stock OD is important. If there's no 15" size that'd get you closer to a 24.65" OD, I'd go for one of the 195/55/16 tires. I'd go Michelin, but the Blizzaks should be good, too.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
4. Finally, regarding my three season tires, I think I should stick to the OEM W rated tires. I think I narrowed it down to the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3 plus and the Conti DWS06. It seems the Conti's have a better proven snow performance (in case they are on the car before I get my snow tires swapped over) but the Michelins have better ride quality and perhaps wearability (many reviews on tire rack mentioned quick tread wear on the Conti's). Any preference between the two or is it time for a coin toss here? I also looked at the Dunlop Signature HP one member mentioned but this tire didn't seem to get the same high marks as the other two choices mentioned.
Michelin, no question. With a winter set, the DWS06's margin in the snow is useless.
Thanks dOOdFooD:
So for dedicated snow tires, I want as small a width (like 185 or 195) vs. my OEM 215, while still maintaining as close to my original diameter as possible right? The smaller width allows better slicing through the snow (one member used the pizza cutter analogy), right?
So for dedicated snow tires, I want as small a width (like 185 or 195) vs. my OEM 215, while still maintaining as close to my original diameter as possible right? The smaller width allows better slicing through the snow (one member used the pizza cutter analogy), right?
For the Michelin X Ice 3, I can get:
185 65 15 92T at 24.5"
195 60 15 92H at 24.2"
or
195 55 16 91H at 24.4"
Would you favor the 195 in the 15 or 16 inch, over the 185 in the 15 inch to gain the higher speed rating (since my OEM are W speed rated and I understand in general higher speed rating = better construction) OR would you compromise the lower speed rating of T to get the narrower, better slicing, 185 65 15? Also, it seems all the Michelin load ratings are all XL vs the Blizzak load ratings of SL. Does that matter for me?
185 65 15 92T at 24.5"
195 60 15 92H at 24.2"
or
195 55 16 91H at 24.4"
Would you favor the 195 in the 15 or 16 inch, over the 185 in the 15 inch to gain the higher speed rating (since my OEM are W speed rated and I understand in general higher speed rating = better construction) OR would you compromise the lower speed rating of T to get the narrower, better slicing, 185 65 15? Also, it seems all the Michelin load ratings are all XL vs the Blizzak load ratings of SL. Does that matter for me?
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
Thanks dOOdFooD:
So for dedicated snow tires, I want as small a width (like 185 or 195) vs. my OEM 215, while still maintaining as close to my original diameter as possible right? The smaller width allows better slicing through the snow (one member used the pizza cutter analogy), right?
More or less.
Too narrow is counterproductive, but yeah, this is the general idea.
Thanks dOOdFooD:
So for dedicated snow tires, I want as small a width (like 185 or 195) vs. my OEM 215, while still maintaining as close to my original diameter as possible right? The smaller width allows better slicing through the snow (one member used the pizza cutter analogy), right?
More or less.
Too narrow is counterproductive, but yeah, this is the general idea.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
For the Michelin X Ice 3, I can get:
185 65 15 92T at 24.5"
195 60 15 92H at 24.2"
or
195 55 16 91H at 24.4"
Would you favor the 195 in the 15 or 16 inch, over the 185 in the 15 inch to gain the higher speed rating (since my OEM are W speed rated and I understand in general higher speed rating = better construction) OR would you compromise the lower speed rating of T to get the narrower, better slicing, 185 65 15?
I'd go for the 185/65/15. Not gonna say the others are bad options, but I like the closer match for the stock OD, the smaller wheel size, and the narrower tread section.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
Also, it seems all the Michelin load ratings are all XL vs the Blizzak load ratings of SL. Does that matter for me?
As long as both load ratings (the full rating, not just the letters) are higher than what your car needs, you're good.
All else equal, XL means more NVH. Might also mean more durability. But when comparing two different tire models, all is not equal, so load rating alone doesn't say much besides... the load rating. :]
For the Michelin X Ice 3, I can get:
185 65 15 92T at 24.5"
195 60 15 92H at 24.2"
or
195 55 16 91H at 24.4"
Would you favor the 195 in the 15 or 16 inch, over the 185 in the 15 inch to gain the higher speed rating (since my OEM are W speed rated and I understand in general higher speed rating = better construction) OR would you compromise the lower speed rating of T to get the narrower, better slicing, 185 65 15?
I'd go for the 185/65/15. Not gonna say the others are bad options, but I like the closer match for the stock OD, the smaller wheel size, and the narrower tread section.
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
Also, it seems all the Michelin load ratings are all XL vs the Blizzak load ratings of SL. Does that matter for me?
As long as both load ratings (the full rating, not just the letters) are higher than what your car needs, you're good.
All else equal, XL means more NVH. Might also mean more durability. But when comparing two different tire models, all is not equal, so load rating alone doesn't say much besides... the load rating. :]
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted By: NissanMaxima
For the Michelin X Ice 3, I can get:
185 65 15 92T at 24.5"
195 60 15 92H at 24.2"
or
195 55 16 91H at 24.4"
Would you favor the 195 in the 15 or 16 inch, over the 185 in the 15 inch to gain the higher speed rating (since my OEM are W speed rated and I understand in general higher speed rating = better construction) OR would you compromise the lower speed rating of T to get the narrower, better slicing, 185 65 15? Also, it seems all the Michelin load ratings are all XL vs the Blizzak load ratings of SL. Does that matter for me?
What you implying is that you want maximum traction in deep snow. Going too narrow means you want good deep snow traction. Then forget Michelin and get Nokian or Bridgestone.
Going narrow and Xi3 IMO does not make any sense.
For the Michelin X Ice 3, I can get:
185 65 15 92T at 24.5"
195 60 15 92H at 24.2"
or
195 55 16 91H at 24.4"
Would you favor the 195 in the 15 or 16 inch, over the 185 in the 15 inch to gain the higher speed rating (since my OEM are W speed rated and I understand in general higher speed rating = better construction) OR would you compromise the lower speed rating of T to get the narrower, better slicing, 185 65 15? Also, it seems all the Michelin load ratings are all XL vs the Blizzak load ratings of SL. Does that matter for me?
What you implying is that you want maximum traction in deep snow. Going too narrow means you want good deep snow traction. Then forget Michelin and get Nokian or Bridgestone.
Going narrow and Xi3 IMO does not make any sense.
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