mercedes 1983 on 0w-30??

[peter230e]

Hello all,

I own a mercedes gasoline 230e 4-cilinder from 1983. It is in very good condition, I only drive it for hobby and avoid short trips and I drive it easy and do not race it. Since this oldtimer is my hobby, I am hardly ever in a queu either.

I want the absolute best for this car to enjoy it for a long time. The manual from 1983 says to use 10w-40 all year round. Only in winter time a 10w30 is permitted. The manual says nothing about API or synthetic etc. I think synthetic did not exist or was not common. I have driven on Semi Synthetic 10w-40 for years.

But now I am learning on the internet that the first number can never be too low, a 0w or 5w would be best for cold engine. If I stick to the car manual then I would take a 0w-40 or 0w-30, but I understand that todays synthetics have a stronger film than mineral oils. I read that with a lower viscosity the flow is better (with possibly a bit less oil presure). This makes me think that a xw-30 might be better for protection.

Shell says: "No, stick to the manual, because the tollerances were bigger in 1983 and therefore the engine needs the thicker film of of xw-40."
I would think that bigger spaces fill itself just as easy with a thinner oil, but than at a higher flow??

Mercedes classic center says: always use a mineral 10w-40 or 20w-40. But I think they are just scared to advise something different than the manual.

Are my above thoughts correct? Should I go for the 0w-30, because of lower friction, wear, lower engine temperature etc? Or does an old engine require a xW-40 indeed? The engine is in my opinion in great shape, I bought the car from the very carefull first owner and is has run 156.000 kilometer (about 100.000 miles).

Thank you all!!
Peter

 

[Trav]

This engine sounds like a candidate for GC.
Good cold flow and a heavy 30w closer to 40w protection.
Lots of older German gas engines use this with good results,i even ran it in an old 200D with good results.

 

[Astro14]

You've got a great car there Peter, I loved the 123 chassis and the 2.3 engine is sweet...while still being economical...right?

I owned an 1981 MB 240D (world's slowest car...) and the manual listed a wide range of viscosities, all predicated on anticipated outside temperature. My 1992 MB calls for about the same, the big thing is an oil thick enough to give you about 0.5 bar at idle when the engine is at operating temp...

If, in your anticipated outside temperature range, the owner's manual and the Mercedes Classic center says you need a 40, then you should stick with a 40. But you can go 5W40, 10W40 or 0W40...all will give you the viscosity you're looking for at operating temp...oil now is sooooo much better than it was in 1983, you have much better choices than were available at the time...

Because it is very close to a 40, the GC would be good....so would Rotella T6 in 5W40 (or it's equivalent in NLD)...which is what I run in my older MB....or the Mobil 1 0W40 or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40...

 

[electrolover]

like others i agree GC might be worth a shot. if it rattles or starts using oil you will know it needs a thicker oil.

i wonder about zinc needs in a car that old. maybe T6 would be a better choice????
another idea would be a euro 5w40

 

[660mag]

My manual on my 1988 300e specs fairly large viscosity for oil weights. I got the car with 187000 on the dash, and the owner had every reciept for every service ever performed including oil changes. In that mileage the car has had only 13 oil changes all with 20w50 Castrol GTX dino except one (was Havoline 10w30). Under the VC everything looks clean, and there are no ticks whatsoever. The 14th oil change was GC, and a tick started up right away. I panicked and replaced the oil about 900 miles later with a 5w40 hdeo, and the tick remained. About 200 miles the tick sound changed and I found the noise all along was coming from a water pump bearing. GC is what I had settled on.
In Europe there cars seem to all call for heaver grades.
Even a sae40w if the air temp is constantly over 85f.
Are you going to be doing a yearly oci?

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: peter230e
Shell says: "No, stick to the manual, because the tollerances were bigger in 1983 and therefore the engine needs the thicker film of of xw-40."


Shell doesn't know the difference between tolerances and clearances? That's hilarious! The bit about the thicker oil film is also funny, because surely the 0W-40 will be thicker when cold compared to hot 10W-40, while the 0W-40 won't be thinner than the 10W-40 when hot.

That said, I would stick with 5W-40 or 10W-40.

 

[Norm Olt]

1983 Mercedes: very simple. You don't need a 0W-xx oil.

Use just about ANY quality HDEO 15w40 you can get your hands on.

Don't know what is available to you. Over here about $10-15 per gallon, then there are rebates occasionally...

Cheers!

p.s. Peter: How are things in the Netherlands?

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
Originally Posted By: peter230e
Shell says: "No, stick to the manual, because the tollerances were bigger in 1983 and therefore the engine needs the thicker film of of xw-40."


Shell doesn't know the difference between tolerances and clearances? That's hilarious!


Yeah the two terms are regularly confused, a true gearhead knows the difference...

No doubt a HD 5W-40 would be fine...

 

[Bruce T]

Peter, welcome to BITOG. Your first post is both intelligent and interesting. I wish other members on BITOG who have started their own threads would put forth that kind of effort (hint, hint).

I can understand the engine not requiring a 0W-5W oil, especially with the mild winter temps in the Netherlands. Peter, do you take a lot of short trips? Then it would make more sense for the cold starts.

 

[Bruce T]

Sorry Peter, I missed it above when you said you, "avoid short trips."

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I owned an 1981 MB 240D (world's slowest car...) and the manual listed a wide range of viscosities, all predicated on anticipated outside temperature. My 1992 MB calls for about the same, the big thing is an oil thick enough to give you about 0.5 bar at idle when the engine is at operating temp...

I agree, the bottom line on how light an oil you can run is indeed oil pressure. Does the car have an OP gauge?
If not I'd recommend to just go with Mobil 1 0W-40; it has a higher ZDDP level than most 30wts and will provide the OP of a 40wt at operating temperature, but due to it's high 185 VI it is actually lighter than GC 0w30 at temp's even as high as 25C and is more than 10% lighter at 0C. A best of both worlds situation.

 

[Trav]

I just noticed you are in the Netherlands so no need to bother about what's available here in the U.S.
You have a lot more choices where you are,i would also look at other Castrol products as its a lot different than the stuff they peddle here.
Any of these will work well.

Castrol EDGE FORMULA RS SAE 0W-40
Mobil 1 ESP-M 5w-40
Shell Helix HX7 5W-40


Originally Posted By: Astro14
I owned an 1981 MB 240D (world's slowest car...)


Not as slow as a 200D

 

[peter230e]

Wow, 11 responces already!! Thanks all. I will respond to your remarks first and tell some more about the car.

@Trav: like some of the others you speak of GC, but I don t know what it means (shame shame) Could you please explain?

@Astro 14: yes I love the w123 model. The 230e is indeed economical, I even reach 13 kilometers per liter and that great and due to the 5-gear box. You say 0,5 bar at idle is enough. Well when cold it is over 3 bar at idle and warmed up it is about 1,6 bar at idle. Does that mean in your opinion that I should go to a lower viscosity than the current 40? ( I was thinking about the Mobil 1 0w-40 myself)

@660mag: Yep I will do a yearly oil change. Did I understand you correctly that the tick was not due to the GC and that you stayed with the GC in the end?? (sorry English is not my mother language and I might have misunderstood)

@volvo st1: Hi, I understand your point completely, but Shell made the remark about the thicker oil film in connection with xw-30 or xw-40, so it made some sence I guess.

@Norm Olt: What does HDEO mean? Things are fine here. Today was the birthday of the queen, so party everywhere and the whole country in orange!

@TFB1: I guess I don t yet understand any of the abreviations: HD does not mean high definition I guess...

@ Bruce T: thanks for the complement. Temperature is not so bad here indeed (at coldest -5 celsius). But I understand that all oil is to thick to lubricate at start up and that s why I feal more comfortable with a 0w or 5w.

@caterham: yes the merc has an OP gauge: the max is 3 bar (the needle sticks at 3 for all pressures over 3 bar. With hot engine the OP is about 1.6 or 1.8 bar at idle.

@Trav: the 200d is indeed the slowest of all.

Thanks for all help. I bought this car in France on a antique market. The first owners were about 78 years I guess and wanted to sell their care over there. All seats have been covered in covers since 1983 (I keep them too), it has always been inside. The trunk was never used, because they did not want to make it dirty (they had a tiny trailor wagon for the sute cases. It is a very need car which I plan to keep for the next 60 years or so, haha.

Thanks again, and waiting for the next responces!

 

[Astro14]

Hey Peter - I appreciate guys that keep the old classics on the road and enjoy them...I didn't even know there was a 200D in the W-123...wow...20% less power and displacement? I think the 240D was 68 BHP when it was new...Volkswagen Beetles used to blow me away at a traffic light...

To answer your question, it's my opinion, that if you're getting 1.5 bar at idle when the engine is good an hot, then the oil is more than thick enough. The old 240D would drop to about 1.0 bar on 15W40 on the hottest day...the 300E will drop to about 0.8 bar on the 5W40...and the manual says that 0.5 bar (or maybe it was 0.3 bar...can't remember now) was the minimum...

So, if you're seeing 1.5 bar when it's hot..and I mean good and hot, like after an autobahn run...then you might be running a bit too heavy of an oil...but I would always err on the side of caution.

HDEO = Heavy Duty Engine Oil...like the Rotella or other diesel oils...and running this classic on an HDEO is exactly what I would do!

That way, when it is 80 years old, it will still be running, and you can pass it on to the grandkids...

Cheers,

 

[HTSS_TR]

Off Topic !!!

peter230e, congratulation to the Netherlands for reaching the final of World Cup last year. When are you going to win it all ? Netherlands had been in the World Cup final match 3 times and didn't win any.

Back to the topic, down here in Southern California I saw many MB W123 running around, from 240D to 300D. Most of them are in good shape.

 

[Norm Olt]

Originally Posted By: peter230e
@Astro 14: yes I love the w123 model. The 230e is indeed economical, I even reach 13 kilometers per liter and that great and due to the 5-gear box. You say 0,5 bar at idle is enough. Well when cold it is over 3 bar at idle and warmed up it is about 1,6 bar at idle. Does that mean in your opinion that I should go to a lower viscosity than the current 40? ( I was thinking about the Mobil 1 0w-40 myself)

@@Norm Olt: What does HDEO mean? Things are fine here. Today was the birthday of the queen, so party everywhere and the whole country in orange!


Thanks for all help. I bought this car in France on a antique market. The first owners were about 78 years I guess and wanted to sell their care over there. All seats have been covered in covers since 1983 (I keep them too), it has always been inside. The trunk was never used, because they did not want to make it dirty (they had a tiny trailor wagon for the sute cases. It is a very need car which I plan to keep for the next 60 years or so, haha.

Thanks again, and waiting for the next responces!



Heavy Duty Engine Oil = HDEO

as in 15w40 Delo, Rotella T, Amsoil AME, etc. Conventional or Synthetic and will meet the original MB spec for older engines, gas or diesel.

Cheers! & Go Orange!

p.s. IMHO you want as many bars @ idle as you can get. The 0.5 or 0.3 bar spec is a minimum spec, not necessarilly what is desirable.

 

[Frank D]

Peter, GC is a 0w30 grade of Castrol Syntec sold in North America that is imported from Germany. I don't know what it is called in Europe but it is a 0w30 thick synthetic oil.

 

[mechtech2]

In 1983, oils with a '5' fist number were scarce.
So of course they were not recommended for your car [and others]!

It is best to use a 0 or 5 instead of a 10 or 15 [first #].

Cold oil is WAY thicker than when hot. We want to minimize this difference for flow and drag.

 

[660mag]

The tick was not from the ow30. Was a failing water pump bearing. Yes I did drain it though. Car now has a new water pump, 5w40, and no tick.

 

[CATERHAM]

With your oil pressure you should have no issue running a 30wt oil, the only issue would possibly be an adequate phosphorus level. I don't know if you can get it in Europe but Shell Rotella T5 0w30 would be a good HDEO choice and is lighter than GC and Mobil 1 0W-40.

One concern I have is your comment that your OP needle sticks at 3 bar max'. I hope it is just the gauge and not a weak oil pump bypass valve spring? Just in case it's the later I'd keep the rev's below 5,000 rpm until the reason for the 3 bar limitation is known.