Meeting GM4718M & Ht0-06 W/O Group IV stocks

[lonestar]

I was curious about oils meeting the GM4718M and Honda HT0-06 specs. I am of the opinion that oils meeting these specs are very good and thus the specs I look for. Recently I had correspondences with Texas Refinery Corp. about their automotive oil and specific asked if their PRO-SPEC met GM4718M & HT0-06. I was told, without hesitation or regret, no and TRC went on to say that these specs require an oil to have Group IV base stocks in the mix to achieve and TRC’s automotive oils were Group III.

If you look at the FAQs on the Castrol Edge site it says Edge contains PAO base stock thus allowing it to achieve meeting the GM4718M spec. There is nothing said about meeting the HT0-06 spec.

In the PZ Q&As about PU PZ states that there are no Group IV or V in PP or PU however, they do claim that PU meets GM4718M and HT0-06. So, a major oil brand says they meet these difficult specs because of the Group IV in it and another formulator says their oil is all Group III and unless you have Group IV in the mix you can not meet these specs. So, how is PZ achieving this in PP and PU and do we assume that the other oils meeting the GM4718M and HT0-06, except PZ products, contain Group IV base stocks?

 

[sbergman27]

This would be the quote you are referring to, I think:

Quote:
11. Are the base stocks group III, IV, or V?

Pennzoil Ultra™ is blended with Group III base stocks. These give superior solvency performance to Group IV base stocks, which we believe aids our aim to provide oil that delivers as close to “Factory Clean”. Rather than focus on any single component in the formulation, we focus on the end product.

I could be wrong, because the wording is ambiguous. But I took that to mean the they use group III and group IV in order to achieve better solvency than if they just used group IV. Now I'm not sure.

If it's all group III, why is PU being lauded rather than skewered here? Not that I have a problem with group III. But I find it easier to swallow the idea that a mix of III, IV, and V gives a better oil than any single one alone, than I do the idea the pure group III oil is the best choice.

Edit: The more I read the quote, the more I agree with your interpretation of it.

 

[addyguy]

PP has met 4718M and HT-06 for a while, and it has always been majority, if not all, group III.

There are studies showing that high-quality group III's are basically equal to PAO base stocks.

I don' think the guy from TRC knows what he's talking about.....

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: lonestar
I was curious about oils meeting the GM4718M and Honda HT0-06 specs. I am of the opinion that oils meeting these specs are very good and thus the specs I look for. Recently I had correspondences with Texas Refinery Corp. about their automotive oil and specific asked if their PRO-SPEC met GM4718M & HT0-06. I was told, without hesitation or regret, no and TRC went on to say that these specs require an oil to have Group IV base stocks in the mix to achieve and TRC’s automotive oils were Group III.

If I heard this, I would conclude that GM4718M and HTO-06 don't require PAO per se, but a level of performance that used to be reachable only by PAO. It's entirely possible that Pennzoil has access to group III base stocks that can get the job done, whereas Texas Refinery Corp. doesn't (or doesn't choose to).

 

[jeepman]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I don' think the guy from TRC knows what he's talking about.....


I gotta agree with addyguy. This is the most recent list I have of GM 4718M approved oils:

76 Super Synthetic Motor Oil 5w30, 10w30
AC Delco Full Synthetic 5w30
Castrol Edge 5w30, 10w30
Castrol SLX Professional 4718 5w30
Chevron Supreme Synthetic 5w30, 10w30
Coastal High Performance Full Synthetic 5w30
Kendall GT-1 Ultimate Synthetic Motor Oil 5w30, 10w30
Mobil 1 0W-20, 0W-30, 5w30,10W-30
Northland, Synergy Synthetic 5w30
Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic 5w30, 10w30
Pinnacle National Synthetic 5w30
Q HorsePower 5w30, 10w30
Service Pro Full Synthetic 5w30
Texaco Havoline Synthetic 5w30, 10w30
Valvoline SynPower 5w30, 10w30
Warren Full Synthetic 5w30, 10w30

I would find it hard to believe that these all contain Grp IV with the thin profit margins some of these companies work on...

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
This would be the quote you are referring to, I think:

Quote:
11. Are the base stocks group III, IV, or V?

Pennzoil Ultra™ is blended with Group III base stocks. These give superior solvency performance to Group IV base stocks, which we believe aids our aim to provide oil that delivers as close to “Factory Clean”. Rather than focus on any single component in the formulation, we focus on the end product.

I could be wrong, because the wording is ambiguous. But I took that to mean the they use group III and group IV in order to achieve better solvency than if they just used group IV. Now I'm not sure.

If it's all group III, why is PU being lauded rather than skewered here? Not that I have a problem with group III. But I find it easier to swallow the idea that a mix of III, IV, and V gives a better oil than any single one alone, than I do the idea the pure group III oil is the best choice.

Edit: The more I read the quote, the more I agree with your interpretation of it.


The more and more I look at this, the more and more I'm convinced PU contains Group IV mixed in with the Group III. It just contains more Group III than IV though

 

[buster]

PAO's are being used more as a correction fluid, in small doses, rather than the majority base oil. Good Grp III's are on the same level as PAO's and in some instances have advantages such as better solvency.

 

[Hokiefyd]

What do you guys mean when you say "better solvency"?

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
What do you guys mean when you say "better solvency"?

Dissolves more stuff, better, to keep your engine Sparkling Clean... Spotlessly Clean... Factory Clean! ;-)