Mazda 3 Mahle [ 2.75 in tall, chinese] filter cut open with Pics. Switch to a Hyundai filter?

[pbm]

Filters that fit Honda are the taller version of Mazda filters. Don't use Hyundai ones. Their gaskets don't fit well. Fram 7317 is the correct taller version.

I ran a Hyundai spec'd (9688) filter for one OCI on our Mazda CX-30 without issues but maybe I was just lucky. There is a BITOG member
who runs the 9688 filter in his Mazda (I don't recall his name right now) so I tried it because I had the Hyundai filter from our sold Elantra.
I do agree that the Mazda spec'd filter (6607) is small but there are many Mazda's running around with high mileage that used them exclusively so I doubt the small size matters. Having said that I've often used 7317 oversized filters on our Mazda....I just don't think it matters much for overall durability on these well designed engines.

 

[Jetronic]

Correct! I was actually thinking that I liked how well the bypass valve appears to seal. Overall not a bad filter but I'm planning on using a much bigger filter [Hyundai]. There appears to be room and it has much more filter media. The standard Mazda size filter is tiny.

Isn't there a bigger fitment in the Mahle line-up? Mann+hummel is a bit hit or miss in build quality, mostly miss it seems. Also, the media often seems to be less efficient at actually filtering.

 

[WobblyElvis]

I cannot find the Hyundai OEM specs but they may be less than stellar for filter efficiency. This appears to be true for many OEM Japanese filters and their engines last a long time. Some recommend a filter change every 2nd oil change. I've also heard the term "rock catchers" when it comes to most filters, meaning almost all oil filters only catch the big stuff.

The problem I find with aftermarket filters is their quality is all over the map. I've cut open a fram xg 9688 and I wasn't impressed. Every Hyundai filter I have opened has always look very well and consistently made. Filter efficiency? I don't know. Will a Hyundai filter fit a Mazda? I'm not sure but I will examine the mating surface before I decide to install or not.

I can purchase Hyundai filters for $7.70 us which is relatively cheap around here and I have a Hyundai car as well so I use them anyways. My Hyundai with 153,000 miles suffers form piston slap and my over all opinion of the engine is not so good but I believe the filters are well made and they have a large amount of filter media.

Unlike most people around the inter-webs I go for longer OCIs and filter change intervals. Served me well for the last 30 years. The 2016 GDI Hyundai engine I have may be different but who knows.

If longer OCIs and Hyundai filters appear to fail me in some way on the Mazda or Hyundai, My opinion may change.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

I cannot find the Hyundai OEM specs but they may be less than stellar for filter efficiency. This appears to be true for many OEM Japanese filters and their engines last a long time. Some recommend a filter change every 2nd oil change. I've also heard the term "rock catchers" when it comes to most filters, meaning almost all oil filters only catch the big stuff.

I will give you a bunch of info you probably already know, but it might help. Baldwin makes heavy duty filters for the heavy duty, industrial and automotive brackets. However, they are not in the filter efficiency race. They match the OEM requirements on efficiency and flow. You can go to their website and look up their filter for your vehicle and that Baldwin filter will match the OEM specs in efficiency and flow. The specs are listed right there when you open up the page for that particular filter. That will tell you what the oem specs are on that particular Hyundai filter, because the Baldwin filter matches it. They have a very helpful tech support Monday-Friday open 9 to 5 central time also. They can find you filters that will fit that are not an exact match but may be what you are looking for. They also have an online catalog that will show a "family" of filters with that same base and thread pitch, sizes etc. Their phone is 308-234-1951 www.baldwinfilters.com Hope this helps.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Thanks GRIFF, that be some good information. The filter efficiency shown for Mazda and Honda filters is not very good when compared to GM or Dodge. There maybe a lesson here. The Hyundai filter appears to be slightly better than the Honda/Mazda filters.

All the specs seem to suggest the Hyundai filter is a better choice for the Mazda. If it fits, I'll give it a go.

 

[OVERKILL]

I ran a Hyundai spec'd (9688) filter for one OCI on our Mazda CX-30 without issues but maybe I was just lucky. There is a BITOG member
who runs the 9688 filter in his Mazda (I don't recall his name right now) so I tried it because I had the Hyundai filter from our sold Elantra.
I do agree that the Mazda spec'd filter (6607) is small but there are many Mazda's running around with high mileage that used them exclusively so I doubt the small size matters. Having said that I've often used 7317 oversized filters on our Mazda....I just don't think it matters much for overall durability on these well designed engines.

FWIW:

Donaldson:
PH9688 crosses to a Donaldson P550162 (99% at 39 microns)
PH6607 crosses to a Donaldson P502067 (99% at 40 microns)
PH7317 crosses to a Donaldson P502007 (95% at 40 microns)

Fleetguard:
PH9688 crosses to a Fleetguard LF16224 (No specs provided, part # is listed as obsolete)
PH6607 crosses to a Fleetguard LF3692 (90% at 20 microns)
PH7317 crosses to a Fleetguard LF3537 (95% at 24.6 microns)

 

[WobblyElvis]

It's interesting that the OEM filters for Nissan, Honda, Toyota and Mazda do not filter well. That is, they only catch the bigger particles and yet they have a reputation for well made long lasting engines. Learn something everyday.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Still not a good reason to use low efficiency oil filters.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

^^^ Still not a good reason to use low efficiency oil filters.

Some OEM engineers, at least on my 2025 Toyota Rav4 with the 2.5L engine don't want the high efficiency used on this A25A-FKS 2025 model year engine. I questioned this, I wanted to use the "better" filters. They want a certain flow rate that most or some of the high efficiencies don't allow. I got this directly from Wix, Purolator tech support and my Toyota Dealership Service Manager. However, they have ok'ed me using 0w-20 or 5w-20 oil instead of the 0w-16 it calls for. I think the flow thing may be for using the engine oil as form of cooling along with the engine coolant. That is just a guess on my part. Anyhow, they require the flow that the tighter filters don't allow. Now if they could triple or quadruple the size of the filter media, they could have their high efficiency filters and flow both. I ended up using the Baldwin B33 filter which matches the OEM filter efficiency and flow. My point is, sometimes flow rate matters, at least on my car.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Some OEM engineers, at least on my 2025 Toyota Rav4 with the 2.5L engine don't want the high efficiency used on this A25A-FKS 2025 model year engine. I questioned this, I wanted to use the "better" filters. They want a certain flow rate that most or some of the high efficiencies don't allow. I got this directly from Wix, Purolator tech support and my Toyota Dealership Service Manager.

That's their standard answer from them because they couldn't tell you what the actual dP vs flow curve is on any oil filter. But if you've seen enough of the test data that's been posted here over the years you'd see with hot oil there's only a few PSI of dP difference between oil filters at pretty high oil flow rates. The flow rates seen in typical street driving is even less of a dP difference between oil filters. There are many high efficiency filters with a low dP vs flow curve. There are literally multi-millions of vehicles driving around using something besides and OEM oil filter and they don't have issues. And there will be may owner's of the 2025 Toyota Rav4 that will be using reputable brand aftermarket oil filters some being high efficiency, and those filters are not going to cause any oiling issues.

However, they have ok'ed me using 0w-20 or 5w-20 oil instead of the 0w-16 it calls for. I think the flow thing may be for using the engine oil as form of cooling along with the engine coolant. That is just a guess on my part.

Good move going up a grade, for reasons that tons of thick vs thin oil threads point out. There really isn't a difference in oil flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief, which depending on the pump would be at relatively high RPM. Even if a filter put the oil pump into relief a bit sooner, the oil flow volume is way more than the minimum required to keep the engine safe - unless the oiling system engineers designed it with zero margins, which if they did shouldn't be designing oiling systems.

Anyhow, they require the flow that the tighter filters don't allow. Now if they could triple or quadruple the size of the filter media, they could have their high efficiency filters and flow both.

You certainly can have both high efficiency and a pretty low dP vs flow curve (reference the huge Ascent ol filter testing thread), and those filters aren't gigantic. Even the dP vs flow testing done by BR shows there isn't a huge difference in the dP vs flow curves with hot oil, even at large flow rates. Not enough to matter to a healthy PD oil pump.

I ended up using the Baldwin B33 filter which matches the OEM filter efficiency and flow. My point is, sometimes flow rate matters, at least on my car.

How do you know it actually matches the OEM filter dP vs flow curve? Baldwin woundn't even know that unless they actually tested all the OEM oil filters. Can you get them to send you actual dP vs flow at a specific oil viscosity, like 15 cSt?

 

[GI_GRIFF]

How do you know it actually matches the OEM filter dP vs flow curve? Baldwin woundn't even know that unless they actually tested all the OEM oil filters. Can you get them to send you actual dP vs flow at a specific oil viscosity, like 15 cS

I don't know that they are telling the truth, and I doubt they would give the specs of their filters on paper. They have a good reputation in the heavy duty and industrial world. They are sold all over the world and are manufactured in the USA and owned by Parker Hanafin, a USA company with a stellar reputation. On the phone I have talked to their people in engineering and design. I was irritated that Baldwin doesn't make the high efficiency filters for cars, specifically my new car. The guy said we can and do make extremely high efficiency filters for OEM's that require it in their specifications. He said, " before we manufacture any filter, we get the specs from the OEM, then we purchase several of their filters and run all kinds of tests on their actual filters, including efficiency and flow, then we build our filters as close as possible to match the OEM filters by specs on paper and actual filter testing. We do that on every filter we build for different OEM's, including your new Toyota. If you are looking for a filter to fit your car with higher efficiency, you will have to buy it elsewhere, and it won't meet OEM specs." Anyhow, that's all I know, I know Baldwin makes high quality OEM spec. filters and that is good enough for me. I know right here in town people that own Toyota vehicles with over 300,000 miles with original engines using Toyota OEM filters that syill run great. The Toyota OEM filters get most of the bird nests and playground pebbles out, that is good enough for Toyota, Baldwin, and me. They are not a very "tight" filter. The reason I don't use the Toyota filter is because I don't like the way it is built inside. I don't like their bypass valve being built into the leaf spring that holds the filter together inside. The Baldwin B33 filter has a different bypass design which I like better.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I don't know that they are telling the truth, and I doubt they would give the specs of their filters on paper.

What is the published flow spec from Baldwin for the filter you're using? Like what is the dP at a specific flow rate and a specific oil viscosity. Do they publish that info, or can you get it from their tech line or engineering department? Without those numbers nobody can say how well they actually flow.

On the phone I have talked to their people in engineering and design. I was irritated that Baldwin doesn't make the high efficiency filters for cars, specifically my new car. The guy said we can and do make extremely high efficiency filters for OEM's that require it in their specifications. He said, " before we manufacture any filter, we get the specs from the OEM, then we purchase several of their filters and run all kinds of tests on their actual filters, including efficiency and flow, then we build our filters as close as possible to match the OEM filters by specs on paper and actual filter testing. We do that on every filter we build for different OEM's, including your new Toyota. If you are looking for a filter to fit your car with higher efficiency, you will have to buy it elsewhere, and it won't meet OEM specs."

Re: bold sentience ... more like it won't "match" the OEM spec, but it will most likely exceed the OEM spec especially in the efficiency department. The dP vs flow is a non-issue for the reasons mentioned before.

Anyhow, that's all I know, I know Baldwin makes high quality OEM spec. filters and that is good enough for me. I know right here in town people that own Toyota vehicles with over 300,000 miles with original engines using Toyota OEM filters that syill run great. The Toyota OEM filters get most of the bird nests and playground pebbles out, that is good enough for Toyota, Baldwin, and me. They are not a very "tight" filter. The reason I don't use the Toyota filter is because I don't like the way it is built inside. I don't like their bypass valve being built into the leaf spring that holds the filter together inside. The Baldwin B33 filter has a different bypass design which I like better.

If you're happy about what you use then that's all that matters. If you don't do very long OCIs and he engine is pretty clean inside then a lower efficiency filter doesn't matter as much as if you're going long OCIs. The thing about inefficient oil filters is that they become less efficient the more they load up, and they also can slough off debris under flow surging condions, like if you hammer the gas peddle and high high RPMs alot. Those are some other reasons to use a higher efficiency oil filter.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

If you're happy about what you use then that's all that matters. If you don't do very long OCIs and he engine is pretty clean inside then a lower efficiency filter doesn't matter as much as if you're going long OCIs. The thing about inefficient oil filters is that they become less efficient the more they load up, and they also can slough off debris under flow surging condions, like if you hammer the gas peddle and high high RPMs alot. Those are some other reasons to use a higher efficiency oil filter.

Believe me, I change oil like most people change underwear. In other word 5000 miles max or 6 months and knowing me, probably half that. Thanks for the debate and schooling ZeeOSix. Take Care

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ I'd still like to know what the actual dP is at a specific flow rate and oil viscosity on those filters. A less efficient oil filter doesn't automatically mean it "flows better" - meaning it has less dP vs flow.

 

[OVERKILL]

Believe me, I change oil like most people change underwear. In other word 5000 miles max or 6 months and knowing me, probably half that. Thanks for the debate and schooling ZeeOSix. Take Care

You may benefit from reading my "What's in your filter" thread stickied at the top of this sub forum. Microglass and other synthetic medias were developed specifically to overcome the shortcomings of conventional media.

 

[WobblyElvis]

What do you think of this video? It's hard to tell what to think.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

^^^ I'd still like to know what the actual dP is at a specific flow rate and oil viscosity on those filters. A less efficient oil filter doesn't automatically mean it "flows better" - meaning it has less dP vs flow

They may tell you if you want to take the time. I am ok with them, I know they are not junk. The B33 does have a paper media. It is built to not exceed or be less than the Toyota Filter you buy for your Toyota at the dealership. They don't build filters to compete with the Wix XP, Purolator Boss, Bosch or Mobil 1 filters. They are not in an "efficiency race". Baldwin does make filters for different companies and applications with the fiberglass and fiberglass infused media with efficiency ratings as precise as anybody if that is what the specifications are from the company they are making the filters for. They know how to make filters, that is what they do to make a living. They make good filters to OEM specs, that is what they do, on purpose. Anyhow, they may or may not give you the info you would like to see, I don't know. Their phone number is 308-234-1951, their website is: https://www.baldwinfilters.com/us/en.html Oh, and they are open 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Monday thru Friday central standard time.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ I just looked at the Baldwin B33 specs on their website and they don't give any flow info. I might call them on Monday and see if they can give any dP vs flow info. Efficiency looks like Toyota OEM or Purolator Boss level.

https://ph.baldwinfilters.com/baldw...-lube-filters/b33-baldwin#tech-specifications

 

[OVERKILL]

They may tell you if you want to take the time. I am ok with them, I know they are not junk. The B33 does have a paper media. It is built to not exceed or be less than the Toyota Filter you buy for your Toyota at the dealership. They don't build filters to compete with the Wix XP, Purolator Boss, Bosch or Mobil 1 filters. They are not in an "efficiency race". Baldwin does make filters for different companies and applications with the fiberglass and fiberglass infused media with efficiency ratings as precise as anybody if that is what the specifications are from the company they are making the filters for. They know how to make filters, that is what they do to make a living. They make good filters to OEM specs, that is what they do, on purpose. Anyhow, they may or may not give you the info you would like to see, I don't know. Their phone number is 308-234-1951, their website is: https://www.baldwinfilters.com/us/en.html Oh, and they are open 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM Monday thru Friday central standard time.

Just for the heck of it, I looked up the Fleetguard equivalent of the Baldwin B33 and ended up with the LF3614. Then I looked up the Donaldson cross and got the P502015.
Baldwin doesn't give a flow spec and they list efficiency as 23 microns nominal, 45 microns absolute.

Fleetguard gives:
Flow: 11.4L/m
Efficiency: 98.7% at 30 microns

Donaldson gives no flow data, but just efficiency of 50% at 20 microns.

So, from these three brands, it seems like Fleetguard gives the most information.

Now, the statement about "matching OEM specs" doesn't really make sense, because if we look at these part #'s, they aren't for a single application or brand. The B33 for example, is the cross for:
- GMC 25161880 (superceded by 19427700)
- John Deere AM107423
- Toyota 90915-03001

Which are wildly different applications.

The John Deere part # for example, the OE filter uses synthetic blend media.


This is not unlike the Ford FL-820S crossing to the Mopar MO-899, ACDelco PF1250 (and PF26) and Land Rover 4137784. The Baldwin B329 can't possibly match the OE performance for all four, as they all have different specs. (There's also a Mercury Marine cross).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Just for the heck of it, I looked up the Fleetguard equivalent of the Baldwin B33 and ended up with the LF3614. Then I looked up the Donaldson cross and got the P502015.
Baldwin doesn't give a flow spec and they list efficiency as 23 microns nominal, 45 microns absolute.

Fleetguard gives:
Flow: 11.4L/m
Efficiency: 98.7% at 30 microns

Donaldson gives no flow data, but just efficiency of 50% at 20 microns.

11.4 L/min is only 3.012 GPM. As mentioned before when a filter maker gives a "flow spec" like this there is no metric to indicate exactly what it means - ie, there is no oil viscosity or dP associated with the "flow spec", so it's basically meaningless. It's like giving a filter efficiency without an associated micron size.