Maybe Pennzoil Ultra Platinum burning off more than most other brands via getting into the combustion cylinder is a good sign

OVERKILL

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Where are you finding Noack numbers for Pennzoil? I haven't been able to find Noack numbers for Pennzoil for at least a couple years.
Yeah, only place I've seen them has been the PQIA, and they've been pretty hit or miss on that too. When Pennzoil Ultra first appeared on the scene, it had fantastically low Noack, but that changed, rather dramatically, when that oil was eliminated and the PUP and PP party started.
 
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Yeah, only place I've seen them has been the PQIA, and they've been pretty hit or miss on that too. When Pennzoil Ultra first appeared on the scene, it had fantastically low Noack, but that changed, rather dramatically, when that oil was eliminated and the PUP and PP party started.

The OG Ultra used lots of PAO I think back then.
 
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Surprised at the amount of varnish, being run on T6. What was the OCI? Though I guess that's less germane given the consumption it was experiencing!
It was -20F when this happened to my wife. She called me and was about 6 miles from home. It was so cold I didn't want to tow it home. I pulled injector plugs until I found the offending cylinder. I drove it home on 3 cyl which is why #2 looks wet. It was just whhosing away for the slow ride home.

OCI has always been 5k since we bought this car in 2013. It has 45k on it then. Has 140k on it in these pics. Has over 150k on it now.
 
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All I have ever seen here is marketing and gushing over PUP. There has been no evidence that shows that this particular oil is superior to any other.

There is nothing magic about it.
Plus there's no where you can walk into a store and buy it. I honestly don't know why Shell even still makes this stuff.
 
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A low volatility oil and an engine that's in good shape results in an oil getting into the ring pack area, exiting via the oil return holes, with only a very thin film (hence, oil control rings, they CONTROL the oil on the piston/wall interface) left. Yes, some of this oil will burn in the combustion chamber, but the amount is minute, most of it should make its way back into the pan via the oil control land drainback holes.

However, higher volatility oils; oils with poor quality base oils, will flash-off/consume while in that ring pack area, leaving deposits, that eventually result in ring sticking and can also cause drainback holes to get plugged up. These are the oils where you will often see consumption, as the oil volatizes and gets consumed via the PCV.

I've posted these slides several times lately, but it sounds like they need to be posted again here:
View attachment 111762
View attachment 111765
View attachment 111763
View attachment 111764

You can see that cleanliness is directly related to better performance in deposit control,
My 300ZX was run almost exclusively on M1 15W50 at 3K oil changes (I bought it with 30K on it). The top end through the oil fill hole is so clean and shiny that you can see your reflection. I definitely have to give that credit to M1 (y)
 
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Same. I remember a couple years ago they were over 10%. I personally didn't care for Pennzoil

Recent PQIA test show Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 and 5W-20 at 8.2% NOACK.

As a comparison;

Valvoline Advanced 0W-20 9.9%
M1 AFE 0W-20 9.8%
Fram FS 0W-20 11.9%
Castrol Edge 0W-20 11.9%
Valvoline Advanced 5W-20 8.7%
M1 5W-20 8.1%
Castrol Edge 5W-20 8.8%
 
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Recent PQIA test show Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 and 5W-20 at 8.2% NOACK.

As a comparison;

Valvoline Advanced 0W-20 9.9%
M1 AFE 0W-20 9.8%
Fram FS 0W-20 11.9%
Castrol Edge 0W-20 11.9%
Valvoline Advanced 5W-20 8.7%
M1 5W-20 8.1%
Castrol Edge 5W-20 8.8%

This all those oils meet the requirement of <15%.

There have been discussions here regarding Noack and how testing comes up with different numbers, even with the same oil. That is why most companies just list that it meets the requirements.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on Noack.
 

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This all those oils meet the requirement of <15%.

There have been discussions here regarding Noack and how testing comes up with different numbers, even with the same oil. That is why most companies just list that it meets the requirements.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on Noack.
Yes, the error bars for Noack are somewhat wide.
 
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Base oil selection is one big component. Mobil, being the vertically integrated juggernaut, produces a lot of base oils that other manufactures have to buy, so then subsequently avoid. These are AN's and esters, along with PAO. AN's and esters are both polar (with esters being moreso, but this introduces surface competition problems at higher concentration levels) and AN's have an uncanny ability to clean, and keep things clean. This is covered in the STLE paper I shared in the Dr. Rudnick thread. The disadvantage of AN's is that they have poor VI's and not great cold temperature performance, so to use them in an oil that will still have excellent cold temp performance, you have to use PAO.

If you look at HPL's formulations, Dr. Rudnick has a LOT of experience with the rather infamous combo of PAO, POE and AN's, which Mobil sold under the "tri-syn" moniker when it was first introduced, but have retained in their formulations since then. So, I tend to think of their (HPL's) oils as sort of the "no holds barred" approach to leveraging that methodology. No major oil company will go this route because it's insanely expensive, but that's how you get the "Godfather of synthetic oils" working for you, give him the ability to produce whatever he wants, without any constraints.
Well said. You get what you pay for. Sure motor oils have a balance of materials to work, but money/cost are the brick wall to creating a over the top do all oil like we see with HPL.
 
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Base oil selection is one big component. Mobil, being the vertically integrated juggernaut, produces a lot of base oils that other manufactures have to buy, so then subsequently avoid. These are AN's and esters, along with PAO. AN's and esters are both polar (with esters being moreso, but this introduces surface competition problems at higher concentration levels) and AN's have an uncanny ability to clean, and keep things clean. This is covered in the STLE paper I shared in the Dr. Rudnick thread. The disadvantage of AN's is that they have poor VI's and not great cold temperature performance, so to use them in an oil that will still have excellent cold temp performance, you have to use PAO.

If you look at HPL's formulations, Dr. Rudnick has a LOT of experience with the rather infamous combo of PAO, POE and AN's, which Mobil sold under the "tri-syn" moniker when it was first introduced, but have retained in their formulations since then. So, I tend to think of their (HPL's) oils as sort of the "no holds barred" approach to leveraging that methodology. No major oil company will go this route because it's insanely expensive, but that's how you get the "Godfather of synthetic oils" working for you, give him the ability to produce whatever he wants, without any constraints.
I am in now way trying to start anything, buy I have always been under the impression that Amsoil was the Godfather of of synthetic oils.

Please inform me! I'm now very curious!
 
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I am in now way trying to start anything, buy I have always been under the impression that Amsoil was the Godfather of of synthetic oils.

Please inform me! I'm now very curious!


Interesting. I hadn’t thought of Amsoil in that way.

Where does Amsoil get their base oils and additive packages?
 

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I am in now way trying to start anything, buy I have always been under the impression that Amsoil was the Godfather of of synthetic oils.

Please inform me! I'm now very curious!
AMSOIL was the first company (they were a year ahead of Mobil) to bring an API-approved synthetic oil to market. However, Mobil had been making synthetic oils for other applications long before that, and in fact, it was a synthetic jet turbine oil (possibly made by Mobil) that Al got his inspiration from.

Keep in mind that Al was not a formulator. He contacted Hatco, who is the company that was heavily involved in this effort, and a supplier.

But I'm not talking about companies in the post you quoted, I'm talking about Dr. Rudnick, who is a formulator. HPL was able to get Dr. Rudnick out of retirement by basically telling him he would be free to blend what he wanted without constraint.

I have a thread on him here:
 
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