Maybe Pennzoil Ultra Platinum burning off more than most other brands via getting into the combustion cylinder is a good sign

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As the title says "Maybe Pennzoil Ultra Platinum burning off more than most other brands is a good thing" because this might mean that it is actually getting into the slots that the piston rings are in so it can work in that area to keep it clean. Think about it. Pistons move at fast speeds during the up and down part of the stroke, and at low speeds at the bottom and top. For an oil to keep those groves cleaned out it has to first get into them. Once there it has to dissolve anything there, then to complete the cleaning job it has to leave while carrying away what ever it removed. I can see that with the speed of movement the leaving part can end up with that oil either going into the combustion chamber, or the crankcase. Probably some ends up going in one direction and some in the other.

Everyone who want an engine to last a long time, also wants that engine to not be a big oil burner when it is old. In order to achieve that those piston ring groves and rings themselves must be kept clean.

So, maybe PUP is a very good oil for keeping piston rings and the groves in the piston they rest in clean, and the price we have to pay for using an oil that does get into this area and do that work is topping up the crankcase more often because of the amount that leaves that area via going into the cylinder and getting burned.

This may be a good thing because:

1) The oil is doing a good job of keeping the piston groves and rings clean which means in the future those rings will still work well.

2) The oil that gets by is lubing the pistons and cylinders.

If this is what is going on, then the price we have to pay for using an oil that gets this job done is topping it off more often.

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You pays your money and makes your choice.

Or just maybe your choice is to use another and not pays your money and use a different oil and end up with piston groves and rings that are not kept as clean.

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So, the question is: is this why PUP burns off more than others? And if so, is this something we should be wanting in an oil?

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My low mileage 2016 Honda CR-V with the 2.4 four banger normally asperated engine did not require any oil to keep it at the full mark with the oil the dealer put in it before I bought it used with 19,877 miles on it, and ran that oil for a normal OCI. But PUP with a Fram Ultra filter on it now does require topping it off a little every once in a while. And PUP is supposed to keep an engine cleaner than most other oils, including especially the piston groves for the rings and the rings, so years later when there are high miles on that engine the rings seal well and it is not a major oil burner.

I see post that several have stopped using PUP because they had to add oil more often. All this and my own experience got me thinking, and I realized that just maybe PUP is getting into those piston groves and doing a good job. And as long as it is not fouling the spark-plugs, maybe adding some oil now and then is not that bad a price to pay for using an oil that is doing a better job than others. So for now I will keep using PUP until someone convinces me there is a better reason to not use it.

What say the BITOG community regarding this line of thought?
 

Astro14

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Your whole line of discussion is based on this assertion: PUP burns off more than other brands.

But that’s not true in my experience.

PUP doesn’t burn off at all in my vehicle. I don’t use any oil between changes.

So, if it doesn’t burn off faster, the whole argument, the whole line of thinking, whether good/bad, completely falls apart.
 

JimPghPA

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You have a vivid imagination. Oil that "burns off" doesn't achieve any cleaning. The oil will always travel to those locations on the piston, regardless of brand.
The cleaning is done at a different time than the burning. The cleaning is done when the oil is in the piston ring groves. The burning is done when some of that oil with the stuff it removed ends up in the combustion chamber.

To expect an oil to get into the piston rings and clean them and then when leaving that area with the stuff it removed to have 100 % get back into the crankcase and none of it to leave via getting into the cylinder is not being realistic.
 
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To expect an oil to get into the piston rings and clean them and then when leaving that area with the stuff it removed to have 100 % get back into the crankcase and none of it to leave via getting into the cylinder is not being realistic.
There is constant oil flow to/from that area. If debris is being removed, it should be able to travel with the oil flow.

Keep in mind that oil being burnt in the combustion chamber also leaves its own set of deposits.
 
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What in PP would allow your scenario to occur that ever other motor oil would not? There isn’t any secret additives or anything in the base oil that would make it act any differently than, say, havoline or Amzoil, etc. I can see where you are trying to get at with this, but I don’t see it happening in the real world scenario.
 

OVERKILL

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The cleaning is done at a different time than the burning. The cleaning is done when the oil is in the piston ring groves. The burning is done when some of that oil with the stuff it removed ends up in the combustion chamber.

To expect an oil to get into the piston rings and clean them and then when leaving that area with the stuff it removed to have 100 % get back into the crankcase and none of it to leave via getting into the cylinder is not being realistic.
A low volatility oil and an engine that's in good shape results in an oil getting into the ring pack area, exiting via the oil return holes, with only a very thin film (hence, oil control rings, they CONTROL the oil on the piston/wall interface) left. Yes, some of this oil will burn in the combustion chamber, but the amount is minute, most of it should make its way back into the pan via the oil control land drainback holes.

However, higher volatility oils; oils with poor quality base oils, will flash-off/consume while in that ring pack area, leaving deposits, that eventually result in ring sticking and can also cause drainback holes to get plugged up. These are the oils where you will often see consumption, as the oil volatizes and gets consumed via the PCV.

I've posted these slides several times lately, but it sounds like they need to be posted again here:
Exxon Mobil technical_Page_18.jpg

Exxon Mobil technical_Page_36.jpg

Exxon Mobil technical_Page_37.jpg

Exxon Mobil technical_Page_40.jpg


You can see that cleanliness is directly related to better performance in deposit control,
 
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Thanks! Which property of Mobil1 reduces high temp deposits?
In other words, which characteristic or component of the oil causes such outstanding deposit control?
 
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Thanks! Which property of Mobil1 reduces high temp deposits?
In other words, which characteristic or component of the oil causes such outstanding deposit control?
Hard to say. The base oil selection can have an impact if it contains AN's or esters. Additive system can have an impact as well.
 
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Um, so if the engine isn't burning oil before Pennzoil, and it's burning it after, then that's pretty much the end of the story. Go back to the previous oil, oil stops burning, no problem.

Now if you're burning oil before Pennzoil then perhaps your story may have some merit.

And yes, I've witnessed engines burn Pennzoil rapidly while not burning any mentionable amount of other brands.
 

OVERKILL

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Thanks! Which property of Mobil1 reduces high temp deposits?
In other words, which characteristic or component of the oil causes such outstanding deposit control?
Base oil selection is one big component. Mobil, being the vertically integrated juggernaut, produces a lot of base oils that other manufactures have to buy, so then subsequently avoid. These are AN's and esters, along with PAO. AN's and esters are both polar (with esters being moreso, but this introduces surface competition problems at higher concentration levels) and AN's have an uncanny ability to clean, and keep things clean. This is covered in the STLE paper I shared in the Dr. Rudnick thread. The disadvantage of AN's is that they have poor VI's and not great cold temperature performance, so to use them in an oil that will still have excellent cold temp performance, you have to use PAO.

If you look at HPL's formulations, Dr. Rudnick has a LOT of experience with the rather infamous combo of PAO, POE and AN's, which Mobil sold under the "tri-syn" moniker when it was first introduced, but have retained in their formulations since then. So, I tend to think of their (HPL's) oils as sort of the "no holds barred" approach to leveraging that methodology. No major oil company will go this route because it's insanely expensive, but that's how you get the "Godfather of synthetic oils" working for you, give him the ability to produce whatever he wants, without any constraints.
 
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Your whole line of discussion is based on this assertion: PUP burns off more than other brands.

But that’s not true in my experience.

PUP doesn’t burn off at all in my vehicle. I don’t use any oil between changes.

So, if it doesn’t burn off faster, the whole argument, the whole line of thinking, whether good/bad, completely falls apart.

First 100k on my 17 Subaru 3.6 was Mobil 1 5-30 and EP version as well. 8k OCI and usually about 1/2 quart of oil burned. She's not a burner. I have been using Penz Plat 5-30 for a few OCI's and even though thinner 30 weight; it just doesn't burn any. I mean like none :oops: . Same experience here Astro.
 
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My wife's 2010 Honda CR-V 2.4 after burning a quart of 5w-40 T6 in 800 miles for the last 3 years. Carbon held the valve open, and it burned. I put a new valve in it. Soaked all 4 cylinders with sea foam while waiting for Gaskets and the valve to arrive. Changed oil after engine reassembly and warm up.

Put in wally world ST 5w-30 and burning about a quart in 4000 miles now.

YMMV
 

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OVERKILL

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My wife's 2010 Honda CR-V 2.4 after burning a quart of 5w-40 T6 in 800 miles for the last 3 years. Carbon held the valve open, and it burned. I put a new valve in it. Soaked all 4 cylinders with sea foam while waiting for Gaskets and the valve to arrive. Changed oil after engine reassembly and warm up.

Put in wally world ST 5w-30 and burning about a quart in 4000 miles now.

YMMV
Surprised at the amount of varnish, being run on T6. What was the OCI? Though I guess that's less germane given the consumption it was experiencing!
 
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