Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I'm not sure why a number of you are so hostile towards exploring the potential situation, perhaps a very rare one, but nevertheless a possibility of having both pilots incapacitated.
As I've said earlier, I agree that landing a big jet would be a long shot, but if I were on that plane I would want to at least make the effort to save myself.
As for the cockpit door being secured, that is true but it isn't impossible to break in if you really want to, this is pretty well known.
I am not hostile to the idea...however, I am opposed to preparing for a situation that has never happened and thus wasting constrained resources on an effort in futility.
I would rather that we, as an industry, and as professionals, use our resources, not on an imagined risk (a Walter-Mitty type fantasy), but on the much greater risks that we face every day: weather, mechanical failure, training shortfalls, fatigue, error management. Those risks have, and continue to, result in fatalities...
Since your hypothetical "both pilots incapacitated" scenario has not, and is incredibly unlikely to, result in fatalities, let's focus on where the return can pay off: the real world.
In the meantime, if both pilots are incapacitated, odds of finding me or 757guy riding in the back are a whole lot better than the odds of anyone being able to learn this skill while doing it. Breaking into the cockpit and touching anything to do with the flight controls or automated systems will ensure that you don't make it, and it will ensure that you take a few hundred people with you by "trying". You don't have the right to decide for them. How would you choose who gets to "try"? Lottery? Volunteer? Loudest?
Best to revive/help the pilots, or find another on board.
This whole discussion reminds me of the car insurance commercial, where the guy is watching the chainsaw juggler, saying, "hey man, give me one, give me one, I got this! I got this!" It's supposed to be funny because it's preposterous...this whole "Let me try to fly an airliner discussion is preposterous...it's not "a long shot"...it's certain failure.
It's as preposterous as a guy showing up in the OR, with a cordless drill, dremel, and exacto knife because the Neurosurgeon has collapsed. "Hey man, I got this! Let me do it! I got this". What makes you think that you can? When you don't know enough about the operation to know just how much you don't know? Think a surgeon on the other end of a cell phone could talk you through the procedure? In a only a limited amount of time? Assuming, of course, that you could 1. dial the cellphone (remember the radio discussion) and 2. a surgeon was available.
You really want to be prepared for the scenario? Go get your commercial and multi-engine licenses. It'll cost you about $100,000, but you'll at least be part way towards an ATP. Then you can get a type rating in a jet, another $20K to $100K, but that training is commercially available. Might not be the right kind of jet, and you have to maintain your proficiency, but you would at least have a chance of flying the airliner in which you find yourself, and it would be your money...so no one would be "hostile" to your training.
I'm not sure why a number of you are so hostile towards exploring the potential situation, perhaps a very rare one, but nevertheless a possibility of having both pilots incapacitated.
As I've said earlier, I agree that landing a big jet would be a long shot, but if I were on that plane I would want to at least make the effort to save myself.
As for the cockpit door being secured, that is true but it isn't impossible to break in if you really want to, this is pretty well known.
I am not hostile to the idea...however, I am opposed to preparing for a situation that has never happened and thus wasting constrained resources on an effort in futility.
I would rather that we, as an industry, and as professionals, use our resources, not on an imagined risk (a Walter-Mitty type fantasy), but on the much greater risks that we face every day: weather, mechanical failure, training shortfalls, fatigue, error management. Those risks have, and continue to, result in fatalities...
Since your hypothetical "both pilots incapacitated" scenario has not, and is incredibly unlikely to, result in fatalities, let's focus on where the return can pay off: the real world.
In the meantime, if both pilots are incapacitated, odds of finding me or 757guy riding in the back are a whole lot better than the odds of anyone being able to learn this skill while doing it. Breaking into the cockpit and touching anything to do with the flight controls or automated systems will ensure that you don't make it, and it will ensure that you take a few hundred people with you by "trying". You don't have the right to decide for them. How would you choose who gets to "try"? Lottery? Volunteer? Loudest?
Best to revive/help the pilots, or find another on board.
This whole discussion reminds me of the car insurance commercial, where the guy is watching the chainsaw juggler, saying, "hey man, give me one, give me one, I got this! I got this!" It's supposed to be funny because it's preposterous...this whole "Let me try to fly an airliner discussion is preposterous...it's not "a long shot"...it's certain failure.
It's as preposterous as a guy showing up in the OR, with a cordless drill, dremel, and exacto knife because the Neurosurgeon has collapsed. "Hey man, I got this! Let me do it! I got this". What makes you think that you can? When you don't know enough about the operation to know just how much you don't know? Think a surgeon on the other end of a cell phone could talk you through the procedure? In a only a limited amount of time? Assuming, of course, that you could 1. dial the cellphone (remember the radio discussion) and 2. a surgeon was available.
You really want to be prepared for the scenario? Go get your commercial and multi-engine licenses. It'll cost you about $100,000, but you'll at least be part way towards an ATP. Then you can get a type rating in a jet, another $20K to $100K, but that training is commercially available. Might not be the right kind of jet, and you have to maintain your proficiency, but you would at least have a chance of flying the airliner in which you find yourself, and it would be your money...so no one would be "hostile" to your training.
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