I won't donate a quart. But I'd love to see the test run.
M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III
- Thread starter Tom NJ
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How can anyone say that? This has nothing to do with performance, and everything to do with consumer expectations and value.
This involves the one company that has insisted that if it's GIII, it's not synthetic. They've consequently charged a premium on the premise that theirs is not GIII. And consumers have relied on that well-cultivated perception in paying it.
Regardless of the actual performance of the stuff, they created and promoted the Group III/IV component distinction and built the consumer's perception of justified value.
It's probably still among the very best OTC motor oils. But seven dollars for a bottle of what may be Group III? Schaeffers 7000 has 20% PAO for less than half the price. I've used M1 with confidence for 30 years . . . and continued to use it because of what they claimed it was NOT. That confidence may now be shaken.
Hopefully, this is all a big misunderstanding or a fluke sample result from a bad lot.
Time will tell.
The worsening viscometrics and some other physical properties in the M1 Product Data Sheets over the last few years and the volatility tests I've done support (but doesn't prove) the Group 3 finding. So does the M1 motorcycle oils' amazing viscometrics and physical properties which are more like the old M1 (Tri-Synthetic), possibly indicating those oils are still getting nothing but the best basestocks.
& not predominantly based on PAO as XOM tried to insinuate to the consumer.
Advencement of science would lend itself toward better products being formulated, not worse. (rolls eyes) This case might be something different.
I think - and when you really think about it - the sample should come from an unopened bottle.
"consequently charged a premium on the premise that theirs is not GIII. And consumers have relied on that well-cultivated perception in paying it".
For years people, have been squawking because Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline etc were charging about the same as Mobil 1..now Mobil 1 is the premium price oil?
Next we have a guy bragging about an oil with 20% synthetic at about half the price of Mobil 1.
Unreal
For years people, have been squawking because Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline etc were charging about the same as Mobil 1..now Mobil 1 is the premium price oil?
Next we have a guy bragging about an oil with 20% synthetic at about half the price of Mobil 1.
Unreal
I personally am considering use Amsoil in the future. Havn't made up my mind yet, but I'm leaning towards it.
When I first joined this board, I think many would agree with me that Mobil 1 was every bit as good as the boutique brands. (SuperSyn).
I think Mobil 1 has truly been a great product for many years, and it probably still is and will continue to be. However, the price of the oil and "secrecy" they play with the base oil composition has not gone over to well with me.
Amsoil states their full synthetics are PAO and XL line are Group III. Big effin deal. They realize that telling you the baseoil isn't revealing anything! I give them credit for that. Why can't XOM do that? Sounds like they have something to hide. Group III!
Lets send Tom a qt of Amsoil 5w-30 for one last test.
When I first joined this board, I think many would agree with me that Mobil 1 was every bit as good as the boutique brands. (SuperSyn).
I think Mobil 1 has truly been a great product for many years, and it probably still is and will continue to be. However, the price of the oil and "secrecy" they play with the base oil composition has not gone over to well with me.
Amsoil states their full synthetics are PAO and XL line are Group III. Big effin deal. They realize that telling you the baseoil isn't revealing anything! I give them credit for that. Why can't XOM do that? Sounds like they have something to hide. Group III!
Lets send Tom a qt of Amsoil 5w-30 for one last test.
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Maybe off topic a bit. But the Mobil site won't give me access to their MSDS. I was specifically looking for the 0w-20 and 5w-20 sheets. Has anyone else had this problem?
Hi Buster,
I don't want to receive samples of everyone's favorite oil. As I mentioned before, we run tests on oils when we have our own business reasons to do so. I've shared some of these results here on the board, but I can't use company resources to become the free testing lab of BITOG.
Now if someone else wants to run G.C.s, I'll be happy to help in the interpretation of the results from my accumulated experience. In addition, I'd love to see someone else (Amsoil?) confirm my findings here and get me off the hot seat.
Maybe when I retire I'll set up a G.C. in my garage and offer a compositional analysis add-on service to a used oil analysis company. Only problem is I may never come out of the garage!
Tom
Test Amsoil? You'd think the reps here like Pablo would already know what's in the oil. At least to the extent of what constitutes it's major proportions. Am I missing something?
well, this has been a very entertaining 317-post read. and a very long read, at that.
so, i too, am quite shocked to hear this. only because it seems very deceiving on mobil's part though.
what i am taking from this information, is that as far as synthetic oil goes, i'm sure mobil is still a VERY good oil. but when it comes tome to buy oil, i will buy what ever is cheaper (on sale) at the time, and not bother paying the extra bucks to grab the mobil.
thank you very much, tom, for your contribution to this community.
quick question: any chance your company has ever tested Liqui-Moly 5W-40?
so, i too, am quite shocked to hear this. only because it seems very deceiving on mobil's part though.
what i am taking from this information, is that as far as synthetic oil goes, i'm sure mobil is still a VERY good oil. but when it comes tome to buy oil, i will buy what ever is cheaper (on sale) at the time, and not bother paying the extra bucks to grab the mobil.
thank you very much, tom, for your contribution to this community.
quick question: any chance your company has ever tested Liqui-Moly 5W-40?
Contrary to popular belief - there are very few people selling any given oil brand who actually know every constituent and the % of said ingredient.
Of course I have asked many times over the years and Amsoil always said PAO with esters....no Group III or lesser.
Remember the PAO only in Amsoil campaign 2 years ago?
Of course I have asked many times over the years and Amsoil always said PAO with esters....no Group III or lesser.
Remember the PAO only in Amsoil campaign 2 years ago?
Hi Benny,
No we have never looked at this oil. We mainly track Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec.
Tom
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