Thank you, Tom. I appreciate your posting. Although this test result is "upsetting", M1 is still a top tier product.
M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III
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Thank you, Tom. I appreciate your posting. Although this test result is "upsetting", M1 is still a top tier product.
In that thread on Gold German Castrol he found:
"This oil is based entirely on 1-decene type PAOs. Judging from the ratios of the C30, C40, and C50 groupings it appears to be a blend of mostly 4 cSt PAO with either 6 cSt or 8 cSt cuts." Quote by Tom in NJ.
How can you say it may not be a viable option?
"This oil is based entirely on 1-decene type PAOs. Judging from the ratios of the C30, C40, and C50 groupings it appears to be a blend of mostly 4 cSt PAO with either 6 cSt or 8 cSt cuts." Quote by Tom in NJ.
How can you say it may not be a viable option?
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427, I'm beginning to get the impression there is some piling on of weight to the lid of Pandora's Box.
Just like Edward Teller and the H-Bomb, I see incomplete knowledge that needs to be explored.
Thanks, Volvohead! Appreciate the kind words and the caution. I try to be very careful in my wording and stick to verifiable facts, which is why I do not state any percentage numbers from uncalibrated G.C.s, only the qualitative presence of the base oils. I also try to make clear that the presence of Group III is not a reduction in quality or performance, and that I remain a devoted user of the M1 products. I am certainly not on a campaign against my favorite oil!
Tom
Tom
Hi 427,
I don't see much PAO in the 15W-50, but let's keep in mind that the G.C. does not see the high viscosity PAOs like the 40 cSt grade and higher. While these percentages are thought to be small, without knowing how much heavy PAO is present I'd rather not speculate on the total percent PAO present. It could have a very significant dose of heavy PAO. I think the main point is that there is also a good slug of Group III in both grades, and while this may be a change it is not necessarily a bad change.
Tom
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I seeem to recall some years ago many of us kicked in 15 bucks each to get the ultimate analysis done on German Castrol. After hundreds of dollars of testing the answer was. "We don't know"
I do
Well not the whole formula, but the principle base oils. Just got the G.C. on the Green and am awaiting the FTIR, and will post on the GC forum when done.
Heeew boy, I must be a glutton for punishment!
Tom,
Since you're shattering all the myths, kicking butts and taking names, could you find it in your heart to someday test if Mobil 5000 sports a Group III base?
Since Carpy left us after first making it, we were never able to put that particular assertion to rest.
Since you're shattering all the myths, kicking butts and taking names, could you find it in your heart to someday test if Mobil 5000 sports a Group III base?
Since Carpy left us after first making it, we were never able to put that particular assertion to rest.
Hi Volvohead,
The G.C. will not distinguish beween Group I, II, and III unless I have reference standards from all of the refineries possibly involved. I would just show a mineral oil distillation cut, plus any PAOs, ANs, and esters within the molecular weight range. But like I mentioned earlier, I cannot use company resources to analyze all of the motor oils out there, only those for which we have a commercial interest.
One other thing I should point out for the record - I post here as an individual, not as a representative of my company. How does the standard disclaimer go... The opinions and interpretations expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent the position of the company.
Tom
The G.C. will not distinguish beween Group I, II, and III unless I have reference standards from all of the refineries possibly involved. I would just show a mineral oil distillation cut, plus any PAOs, ANs, and esters within the molecular weight range. But like I mentioned earlier, I cannot use company resources to analyze all of the motor oils out there, only those for which we have a commercial interest.
One other thing I should point out for the record - I post here as an individual, not as a representative of my company. How does the standard disclaimer go... The opinions and interpretations expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent the position of the company.
Tom
Tom thank you for taking out your findings and opinions around here.
It is truly amazing how people will defend oil on here and the whole oil deal is always a nice mystery to me.
It kinda reminds me of G*d discussions (cant say that word around here). haha
No matter what kind of proof you show, the "faithfull" will not buy it. This is not just the case with Mobil, it is with oil in general.
Thank you for your work and keep us updated. I am anxiously awaiting GC Gold and Green comparisons.
I think I should get some oil straight form Germany and send it to you for analayzing, but I guess yo uhave already a million requests to analyze different oils from people on here. hahah
It is truly amazing how people will defend oil on here and the whole oil deal is always a nice mystery to me.
It kinda reminds me of G*d discussions (cant say that word around here). haha
No matter what kind of proof you show, the "faithfull" will not buy it. This is not just the case with Mobil, it is with oil in general.
Thank you for your work and keep us updated. I am anxiously awaiting GC Gold and Green comparisons.
I think I should get some oil straight form Germany and send it to you for analayzing, but I guess yo uhave already a million requests to analyze different oils from people on here. hahah
Hi StoicDude,
Thanks! The GC Green looks just like the GC Gold so far - PAO based with no mineral oil except for the small amount from additives. Of course I cannot see any real high molecular weight components like VI improvers, heavy PAOs and Ketjenlubes, but so far not seeing any conventional esters. When I get the FTIR results I'll post on the GC forum.
Tom
Thanks! The GC Green looks just like the GC Gold so far - PAO based with no mineral oil except for the small amount from additives. Of course I cannot see any real high molecular weight components like VI improvers, heavy PAOs and Ketjenlubes, but so far not seeing any conventional esters. When I get the FTIR results I'll post on the GC forum.
Tom
I understand it may not necessarily a bad change. But as I alluded we can assume that there's roughly room for 65% of the formula for the base oil. In your post on the EP 15w50 you said it was "based mostly on mineral oil (presumably Group III)". In your post on the 5w30 EP you stated that it consisted of "MOSTLY mineral oil, presumably Group III".
Just through an imperfect process of elimination, one would take a SWAG and say it must contain at least 33% Group III, with the rest (32%) made up of PAO.
Do those numbers sound reasonable?
this really opened my eyes on mobil/exxon. they boasted about using only true synthetics in their oils. now tom shows that this ep contains group 3. in the end it doesnt matter as mobil will never admit to having group 3 in their synthetics. will say the tests done was tainted to make mobil look bad.
thanks for all your hard work tom. from the way you talk. your a very busy man. thank you for taking time out testing some of these oils for us.
maybe someone needs to talk to castrol and let them know about mobil-1 containing group 3. sure they would love to know this.
thanks for all your hard work tom. from the way you talk. your a very busy man. thank you for taking time out testing some of these oils for us.
maybe someone needs to talk to castrol and let them know about mobil-1 containing group 3. sure they would love to know this.
If your unnecessarily veiled reference relates to Mobil Oil Co. and Castrol, nobody sued anybody. The matter was referred to binding arbitration by mutual agreement.
It's interesting that such an obscure product was chosen to be "tested for it's ester content". It's almost like Tom knew where to look for some contraversy. Good job.
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Thank you Tom and please don't let the opinions of some that apparently don't believe in science stop you from posting your findings on here. I am sure the majority really like to read about your findings. Thanks again. And this has to be the most interesting post on this site that I have ever seen.
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