M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III
- Thread starter Tom NJ
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 2,330
I understand what you are showing so for the un-initiated I will say that the statements for both the 5W20 and 5W30 can be interpreted as being group III. At the risk of being repeatative I have to say that if the 5W30 was PAO they would state it as such.
This seemingly endless discussion seems to be focused on what is perhaps the least representative of the Mobil 1 line: 15W-50 EP. Being the heaviest viscosity range, it is primarily an oil for very hot conditions and racing and certainly not an ideal all around oil for most vehicles and driving conditions. Hopefully, someone will do a gas chromatographic analysis on what is perhaps the best Mobil 1 product: 0W-40.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 2,330
Tom also tested 5W30 (North America's most popular viscosity) and was found to be mostly group III. 0W40 has mixed impressions on performance. I would think ANY 0WXX oil would HAVE to be all PAO but who knows? I would love for Tom to do some G.C. tests on Mobil's 0WXX oils. He did on GC gold and the results were alll PAO which is why I am switching.
Right, and there was a drop.....so do we attribute it to zddp or group III?
Here's a UOA from EP 15W50:
Molybdenum ... 62
Nickel ........... 0
Maganese ..... 2
Silver ........... 0
Titanium ....... 0
Potassium ..... 2
Boron ........... 97
Silicon ......... 14
Sodium ......... 5
Calcium ........ 2308
Magnesium .... 11
Phosphorus .... 842
Zinc ............. 948
Barium .......... 0
and from old SL red cap 15W50
Molybdenum: 76
Nickel: 0
Manganese: 0
Silver: 0
Titanium: 0
Potassium: 0
Boron: 157
Silicon: 3
Sodium: 5
Calcium: 2597
Magnesium: 17
Phosphorus: 1073
Zinc: 1261
Barium: 0
Looks like a thinner ad pack all around unless this is just a bit of lab error.
I think this message is the one you are thinking of:
Hey Bobert, could you take a picture of the front and backs of the old and new 15W-50 oil bottles. Does the old red cap state VW 502 on the bottle? Very interesting thread. Very long, but well worth the read.
From a former Mobil1 oil user and current Mobil1 ATF user... The "Et tu, Brute" quote is so appropriate.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 2,330
Nope. It's in this thread.
Okay boys and girls, take a seat cause you aren't going to like this.
The new M1 EP 5W-30 SM dated Oct 2006 just came out of the G.C. and it is MOSTLY mineral oil, presumably Group III. It also contains a good slug of AN and some PAO, but little or no ester. Will have more data tomorrow.
Just for the record, I intend to still use M1 EP, in spite of their slide down the slippery slope.
Tom
Okay, okay, okay! I get the message! I'm heading down to Autozone first thing in the morning and buying out their entire stock of Castrol Syntec 0W-30 European Formula! Besides, the bottles are better looking than Mobil 1 and those hex head bottle caps just drive me wild!
I just finished reading the 21 pages of this thread. Tom's tests of Mobil 1 EP 15W-50 and Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 appear to be valid and correct. Particularly enlightening is his statement that:
"The new M1 EP 5W-30 SM dated Oct 2006 just came out of the G.C. and it is MOSTLY mineral oil, presumably Group III. It also contains a good slug of AN and some PAO, but little or no ester."
Also enlightening is Mobil's failure to refute the evidence that at some point in time it switched its Mobil 1 EP (and thus presumably its Mobil 1) formula such that it now contains anywhere between a large amount of, to mostly, Group III base stock.
I agree with those of you who say that Mobil has for years led the public to believe that both oils used solely Group IV and/or Group V as the base stock, and has used that as the reason for the high price of those oils. It now appears that we have been mislead and overcharged. Frankly, if Tom's tests are correct, what Mobil has done doesn't surprise me a bit. It is just one more example of the fraud and deceit that pervades big business in this country.
I've been a Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 EP user and supporter for years, but there's no way I'll pay the high price that Mobil charges for oils that are largely or mainly a Group III base stock. Nor will I do business with a company that has defrauded and lied to me. As others have pointed out, the performance of the oils is not the point. The point is the manner in which Mobil has conducted itself. I'm going to see how this plays out, but it looks like I'll be switching to another oil. In the meantime, I'm going to check out German Castrol a lot more than I have in the past.
"The new M1 EP 5W-30 SM dated Oct 2006 just came out of the G.C. and it is MOSTLY mineral oil, presumably Group III. It also contains a good slug of AN and some PAO, but little or no ester."
Also enlightening is Mobil's failure to refute the evidence that at some point in time it switched its Mobil 1 EP (and thus presumably its Mobil 1) formula such that it now contains anywhere between a large amount of, to mostly, Group III base stock.
I agree with those of you who say that Mobil has for years led the public to believe that both oils used solely Group IV and/or Group V as the base stock, and has used that as the reason for the high price of those oils. It now appears that we have been mislead and overcharged. Frankly, if Tom's tests are correct, what Mobil has done doesn't surprise me a bit. It is just one more example of the fraud and deceit that pervades big business in this country.
I've been a Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 EP user and supporter for years, but there's no way I'll pay the high price that Mobil charges for oils that are largely or mainly a Group III base stock. Nor will I do business with a company that has defrauded and lied to me. As others have pointed out, the performance of the oils is not the point. The point is the manner in which Mobil has conducted itself. I'm going to see how this plays out, but it looks like I'll be switching to another oil. In the meantime, I'm going to check out German Castrol a lot more than I have in the past.
It's nearly 50 bucks for 4.5 liters in Canadian Tire. Only Redline is more expensive.
Based on the performance...Do you get what you pay for with Mobil 1 EP?
IS this label 3 times better than a 2 buck a quart oil?
Let's get this strait, finally, for once-and-for-all: Mobil 1 contains synthetic base oil technology in it's basestock oils. How clear can they be?
which could PAO or not...
Be the now considered legal definition yes it is, but it is also the one they themselves denigrated as not a true synthetic. They made their beds and now they can lye in them.
So they say over and over in their own literature by writing definition of what they think is a synthetic and what is not. By their definition it is a Semi-Synthetic not just ours here at BITOG. Heck ain't it where we learned it??
So if you bought your touted by previous actions a PAO product and delivered something else and did not tell anyone then you LIED!!! Simple as that.
They lied, got their hands caught in the cookie jar and deserve none of our business. If you like Mobil 5000, 7500, 1, or 1EP they should be boycotted. They were bought due to a belief nurtured by them and now switched out products and did not tell anyone. I love it, they went to new TRI-Synthetic, to Super-Syn, now they change the largest part to what they told us was inferior with no change in label hoping we would not find out. They heck with them. Might as well get out the SynPower.
So they say over and over in their own literature by writing definition of what they think is a synthetic and what is not. By their definition it is a Semi-Synthetic not just ours here at BITOG. Heck ain't it where we learned it??
So if you bought your touted by previous actions a PAO product and delivered something else and did not tell anyone then you LIED!!! Simple as that.
They lied, got their hands caught in the cookie jar and deserve none of our business. If you like Mobil 5000, 7500, 1, or 1EP they should be boycotted. They were bought due to a belief nurtured by them and now switched out products and did not tell anyone. I love it, they went to new TRI-Synthetic, to Super-Syn, now they change the largest part to what they told us was inferior with no change in label hoping we would not find out. They heck with them. Might as well get out the SynPower.
I agree 100% !
I'm not buying any more Mobil 1 unless I'm convinced they have a product that is worth the $$ and is a true full synthetic.
I'm gonna use up my stash of Green GC,and limit my future purchases to full line Redline product line including their great motor oils, certain Amsoil products like Series 2000 and European Formula, 'on sale 'Pennzoil Platinum oils, Rotella T 15w-40 new formula and 5W-40 'Synthetic'.
I do have some Valvoline Synpower 5W-40 and some Maxlife from the free after rebate deal, and Valvoline seems to make some excellent oils. I'm ticked off at Castrol and Mobil now...I'll support Redline, Amsoil, Shell, Valvoline, and Havoline/ Motorcraft/ TropArtic from now on.
Heck, I may even try Royal Purple... but no more Castrol other than GC 0W-30, and maybe Mobil 1 0W-20 /0W-40 if they turn out to be true full synthetics.
In Europe Honda HFE-20 0W-20 made by TotalElf is gr.III unlike HFE-30 0W-30 which is gr.IV. Strange, isn't it ?
Quote:
Quote:
Terry knows him. Knows of his work.
Done deal . Tom is legit.
Period.
Take care, Bill
No, I KNOW Tom is legit. I was pointing it out to someone else.
Oh...
Nevermind...
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
