M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III
- Thread starter Tom NJ
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armageddon is here
Shannow
Not good news to say the least. Especially when Repco is selling M1 10W-30 for $85/5L, which for you americans is about US$12/qt
. Pretty bad value, even without GIII. Was waiting for an excuse to fork out for a bottle of redline. Buying Delvac by the 20L drum works out at about $50/5L which would appear to be much better value.
Not good news to say the least. Especially when Repco is selling M1 10W-30 for $85/5L, which for you americans is about US$12/qt
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This is a well thought out and concise synopsis of what has taken place on these Mobil 1 threads. This should be a must read for those wondering why these threads a so popular and will not take the time to read the whole thing.
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Maybe because of the smaller viscosity spread of the 0W20 allows group III? I was just thinking that the cold flow properties of an 0WXX would dictate PAO but that is pure speculation on my part.
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That would be VW 505.00, not VW 502.00. Not that you can't use a VW 505.00 oil in a VW 502.00 application.
Do we know when this switch took place? Was it the introduction of the new sm rated oils?
Hi Guys,
I have decided not to report any more base oil compositions on the forum.
I mentioned the change in a couple of M1 grades simply because this was a news item of the type that are frequently discussed here, and fitting with the theme of the forum. What I expected to be a friendly discussion on motor oil trends has exploded into a controversy that threatens to move from a forum chat to an industry event. That was not my intention, nor would I want our customers or potential customers to think that we may next be reporting their base oil types - we certainly would not. The only way to slow this down and assure others is to stop.
Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the members here who are only reacting in an honest and passionate way, the same characteristics that make this board so great. Nor have I been pressured by anyone; this is a personal decision based on practical considerations.
I fully intend to continue participating on this board as the learning, teaching, and sharing is very fulfilling. And I'll be happy to discuss any topic on lubricants and base oils - I'll just refrain from reporting specific compositions. I hope you can understand and appreciated this change.
Tom
It was interesting while it lasted.
I wonder if I can dig up some instructions on how to build a crude GC apparatus at home...
It shouldn't be too hard to make one, though you won't get very fine separation.
The capillary tube might work ok without a coating, and a heavy metal box inside a domestic oven might supply the uniform temperature. The detector might be a hydrogen flame and an infrared photodiode. Helium can come from a balloon, though retention times will get distorted a bit as the pressure varies. This would be an interesting project for a high school science fair.
It shouldn't be too hard to make one, though you won't get very fine separation.
The capillary tube might work ok without a coating, and a heavy metal box inside a domestic oven might supply the uniform temperature. The detector might be a hydrogen flame and an infrared photodiode. Helium can come from a balloon, though retention times will get distorted a bit as the pressure varies. This would be an interesting project for a high school science fair.
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Thank you Tom. I am sure we all understand your decision and respect it.
That said. If you did not let the cat out of the bag somesone else would have, sooner probably rather than later. The bottom line is the bottom line. Regarless of who was the messenger.
That said. If you did not let the cat out of the bag somesone else would have, sooner probably rather than later. The bottom line is the bottom line. Regarless of who was the messenger.
Tom, I understand and respect your decision. I look forward to your technical input on the forum.
Tom,
I guess you learned a valuable lesson. But honestly - you really didn't expect this?
The passion for brand loyalty and passionate hate against synthetic oil companies runs deep and strong amongst some folks. Much stronger feelings than most commodity type items. It's more than just - "oh, I guess I won't use THAT brand anymore". In some cases people actually seek out any weakness to use as a leverage point, to the point of deep, disturbing levels.
While it remains interesting news - and regardless of what the BiTOG consensus is - it's just that - interesting internet news to me until I get my own scientific confirmation. Again - it's NOT that I don't believe you. You observed what you observed. THIS is important enough to get fully independent verification - so for now the whole "M1 basestock group selection" dangles questionable but unresolved.
Good luck and yes - please keep posting!
Thanks,
Paul
I guess you learned a valuable lesson. But honestly - you really didn't expect this?
The passion for brand loyalty and passionate hate against synthetic oil companies runs deep and strong amongst some folks. Much stronger feelings than most commodity type items. It's more than just - "oh, I guess I won't use THAT brand anymore". In some cases people actually seek out any weakness to use as a leverage point, to the point of deep, disturbing levels.
While it remains interesting news - and regardless of what the BiTOG consensus is - it's just that - interesting internet news to me until I get my own scientific confirmation. Again - it's NOT that I don't believe you. You observed what you observed. THIS is important enough to get fully independent verification - so for now the whole "M1 basestock group selection" dangles questionable but unresolved.
Good luck and yes - please keep posting!
Thanks,
Paul
Thank you for contributing the information to the forum, and reawakening our interest in the pros and cons of various oils.
As consumers and enthusiasts we are still at a huge disadvantage when it comes to making informed buying decisions.
No matter how hard we try to learn about the products we buy there are always giant corporations who have clever wordsmiths to craft carefully constructed 'information' about the products we buy.
I was just at the Mobil 1 booth at the SEMA show in Las Vegas, and the Mobil 1 reps assured me that Mobil 1 was full synthetic, not a hydrocracked synthetic. Sounds a bit like 'I did not have sex with that woman' ....true, if one carefully creates new definitions of what sex is.
I had begun to put my faith in Mobil to formulate the best synthetic oils, and now I'm not so sure.
The new Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP on Europe seems quite advanced with ACEA A3 rating [ HTHS 3.58 ] and ACEA A5, as well as the newer MB, BMW, VW approvals.
http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp
This seems like a very good oil.
But I can't ignore the feeling that maybe I'm being hustled.
Group IV and Group V basestocks provided a simple rule of thumb to an oil's value and performance.
Group III and GTL may lead to even better oils, and make my basestock standard irrelevant.
But it also opens up the chance for oil companies to make oil more of a shell game in which we buy the best oils by brand; thinking premium price equals premium performance.
The reality could just as easily be that brand name performance synthetics become little more than marketing driven profit centers that is growing, in contrast to the rest of PCMO's which are more of a flat and commodity-like lubrication product sector.
I like good engineering, and real world performance and value....not corporate hype and exploitation.
Manufacturer's approvals and factory fills may be of some use, but only rigorous test will tell us the whole story....and that sort of testing has been very rare stuff.
...like nobody saw that coming.
Personally, when I made a decision to do something, I stick to it.
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