M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III

[BrianWC]

Here's a quote from a guy in New Jersey who posted this on a CR-V forum back in February. He races Lotuses, I believe, and he was referring to 15W50.

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WARNING: My fellow track day enthusiasts have seen failures with the new Mobil 1 Extended Peformance oils. (Spun engine bearings etc) Be sure to keep up the practice of changing the oil before and after a rally.

We think (not proven by any means) that the new additive package is to blame. It's a much bigger percentage of the total oil than before. And, it's built from regular petroleum stock, not a synthetic base.

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Regardless of the hypothesizing, it seems certain he and his pals saw a problem after going to the EP version.

 

[buster]

Brian, this is happening with many other SM synthetics as well if you have been doing your reading. Some engines require more ZDDP for racing. You'll find most of your racing oils contain significantly more ZDDP.

 

[Bobert]

Quote:

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Here's a quote from a guy in New Jersey who posted this on a CR-V forum back in February. He races Lotuses, I believe, and he was referring to 15W50.

Quote:

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WARNING: My fellow track day enthusiasts have seen failures with the new Mobil 1 Extended Peformance oils. (Spun engine bearings etc) Be sure to keep up the practice of changing the oil before and after a rally.

We think (not proven by any means) that the new additive package is to blame. It's a much bigger percentage of the total oil than before. And, it's built from regular petroleum stock, not a synthetic base.

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Regardless of the hypothesizing, it seems certain he and his pals saw a problem after going to the EP version.

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I remember that post.

I think Mobil made a mistake by moving to GIII with this grade since a lot of Porsche owners and people who track their cars usually run thicker grades. Now that I think about it, the VW 502 approval was also removed from the 15w-50EP as well compared to the old red cap M1.

 

[Bill in Utah]

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Perhaps dig around for Tom's credentials.

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Terry knows him. Knows of his work.

Done deal . Tom is legit.

Period.

Take care, Bill

 

[Max_Wander]

Mobil 1 has always had a trademark scent. The last bit of M1 0w30 i used lost that scent. I'm totally convinced that there was a huge formulation change. TOTALLY UNSCIENTIFIC, but it's first hand experience

 

[Maximumcanon]

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Mobil 1 has always had a trademark scent. The last bit of M1 0w30 i used lost that scent. I'm totally convinced that there was a huge formulation change. TOTALLY UNSCIENTIFIC, but it's first hand experience

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http://forums.maxima.org/images/smilies/wtflol.gif

 

[Max_Wander]

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Mobil 1 has always had a trademark scent. The last bit of M1 0w30 i used lost that scent. I'm totally convinced that there was a huge formulation change. TOTALLY UNSCIENTIFIC, but it's first hand experience

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http://forums.maxima.org/images/smilies/wtflol.gif

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I'm a sniffer!

It's true! I can identify at least 4 of the major brands locally

 

[buster]

Mobil 1 can now join the list of other Group III/IV/V blends:

Elf
Shell Helix
Synergyn

 

[Oil Changer]

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Mobil 1 can now join the list of other Group III/IV/V blends:

Elf
Shell Helix
Synergyn

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And I'll join the true PAO crowd:
German Castrol 0W30!

 

[TomJones76]

Quote:

---

Here's a quote from a guy in New Jersey who posted this on a CR-V forum back in February. He races Lotuses, I believe, and he was referring to 15W50.

Quote:

---

WARNING: My fellow track day enthusiasts have seen failures with the new Mobil 1 Extended Peformance oils. (Spun engine bearings etc) Be sure to keep up the practice of changing the oil before and after a rally.

We think (not proven by any means) that the new additive package is to blame. It's a much bigger percentage of the total oil than before. And, it's built from regular petroleum stock, not a synthetic base.

---

Regardless of the hypothesizing, it seems certain he and his pals saw a problem after going to the EP version.

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BrianWC,

From context, does it appear the Lotus population is experiencing failures in normal intervals with M1 15W50 EP, or at extended intervals?

 

[buster]

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A modern Group III oil can actually outperform a PAO in several areas important to lubricants, such as additive solubility, lubricity and antiwear performance. Group III base oils can now rival PAO stocks in pour point, viscosity index and oxidation stability performance. Some of the key measures for finished lubricant performance where Group III must compete with Group IV include:

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What is everyone so upset? M1 should be a better oil now!

Group III vs PAO

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Quote:

---

Here's a quote from a guy in New Jersey who posted this on a CR-V forum back in February. He races Lotuses, I believe, and he was referring to 15W50.

Quote:

---

WARNING: My fellow track day enthusiasts have seen failures with the new Mobil 1 Extended Peformance oils. (Spun engine bearings etc) Be sure to keep up the practice of changing the oil before and after a rally.

We think (not proven by any means) that the new additive package is to blame. It's a much bigger percentage of the total oil than before. And, it's built from regular petroleum stock, not a synthetic base.

---

Regardless of the hypothesizing, it seems certain he and his pals saw a problem after going to the EP version.

---

What doesn't make sense to me about the M1-EP issues is the application itself. EP means Extended Performance. Yet, these guys are using the oil in a short-OCI scenario: racing. OF COURSE it's NOT going to be formulated for racing, it's formulated to go 15,000 miles!

Am I off-base in thinking that M1-EP is ABSOLUTELY NOT the oil to use on the track? It doesn't matter what the add-pack is! They're using the incorrect oil for the given application.

 

[Tornado Red]

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What is everyone so upset? M1 should be a better oil now!

Group III vs PAO

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Better AND cheaper.

What, you mean it's not cheaper? You mean Mobil charges more for the EP oils?

 

[TomJones76]

Quote:

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Quote:

---

Here's a quote from a guy in New Jersey who posted this on a CR-V forum back in February. He races Lotuses, I believe, and he was referring to 15W50.

Quote:

---

WARNING: My fellow track day enthusiasts have seen failures with the new Mobil 1 Extended Peformance oils. (Spun engine bearings etc) Be sure to keep up the practice of changing the oil before and after a rally.

We think (not proven by any means) that the new additive package is to blame. It's a much bigger percentage of the total oil than before. And, it's built from regular petroleum stock, not a synthetic base.

---

Regardless of the hypothesizing, it seems certain he and his pals saw a problem after going to the EP version.

---

What doesn't make sense to me about the M1-EP issues is the application itself. EP means Extended Performance. Yet, these guys are using the oil in a short-OCI scenario: racing. OF COURSE it's NOT going to be formulated for racing, it's formulated to go 15,000 miles!

Am I off-base in thinking that M1-EP is ABSOLUTELY NOT the oil to use on the track? It doesn't matter what the add-pack is! They're using the incorrect oil for the given application.

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You do, of course, realize that M1 15W50 is a popular racing oil for a number of engines in a number of circles, right?
Even if Mobil doesn't say to use it in those applications, if they're making a suitable product unsuitable for a widespread usage, a notice would be nice.
This is the kind of rumor that can result in an immortal vicious reputation like the one Pennzoil has for sludging engines.

 

[yannis]

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Now that I think about it, the VW 502 approval was also removed from the 15w-50EP as well compared to the old red cap M1.

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Are you certain about it? The VW 502.00 is a long drain approval never obtained by any 15W50.

 

[Lex94]

If Tom NJ, Molakule, Terry produced a 0w-20/0w-30 PCMO, I would buy it. I would not even care if it did not come with API certs. These guys are scientists and not MBA hucksters.

How bout it guys! A 0w-20 with ultra-low Phosphorous/Zinc and a NOACK quart

 

[Bobert]

Here is a photo of the old 15w-50. It's labeled as Performance Driving Formula. While it's not labeled race formula, plenty of people have used it in racing situations. I'm thinking people are assuming the M1 15w-50EP is the replacement formula for the old red cap, and also assuming it's just as capable performance wise. Being that the new EP formula has changed to GIII and some of the performance specs have been lowered such as the HTHS and being that some of the performance approvals have disappeared such as VW 502, it might NOT be as capable as the old PAO red cap formula.

 

[Bobert]

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Now that I think about it, the VW 502 approval was also removed from the 15w-50EP as well compared to the old red cap M1.

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Are you certain about it? The VW 502.00 is a long drain approval never obtained by any 15W50.

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Yes I have both the old red cap and the new EP out in the garage. The red cap has VW 502 approval and EP does not.

 

[buster]

I believe they are replacing it with 5w-50 M1 EP

 

[ccs v2.0]

Hmm... in that picture, I see two checkered flags and "race proven" under them. What did Mobil imply...?