M1 EP 10W30 9226 oci 4cyl 97 Toyota Camry 208,000

[teddyboy]

The oil was M1 EP 10W30 which was run 9226 miles. The oil filter was a M1 EP. As I posted previously, the sample was gathered by letting the oil drip with the drain plug almost out. This fact was revealed to Blackstone. There was 3/4 qt make-up:1/2 qt before first sample, 1/4 qt before second.

First column is the most recent UOA. The second column is the sample taken at 7727. I have to admit being extremely disappointed in the TBN at 9226.

Aluminium 4 3
Chromium 0 0
Iron 14 12
Copper 6 4
Lead 3 3
Tin 0 0
Molybdenum 101 100
Nickel 0 0
Manganese 0 0
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 3 2
Boron 60 63
Silicon 16 15
Sodium 8 7
Calcium 2324 2851
Magnesium 13 15
Phosphorus 675 768
Zinc 844 1030
Barium 0 0
SUS Visc@210F 61.5 60.9
cSt Visc@100C 10.65 10.48
Flashpoint F 385 385
Fule % Water % 0 0
Insolubles .3 .3
TBN .9 2.5

While your sampling technique isn't ideal, it did get the job done. This 2.2L is putting up some nice numbers. Wear was essentially unchanged in this second sample. Since you ran longer on the oil, that's a good sign that the engine is doing well mechanically. The oil itself was in good shape physically with no fuel or coolant contamination present. Low silicon and insolubles show excellent oil and air filtration. The TBN was lower than last time. 0.9 shows that the active additive was pretty much used up. Try 10,000 miles on the oil next time. Nice engine.

 

[shpankey]

So it's below their usual cut off TBN of 1.0 and they say to go 800 more miles? Man, I think 9k is about all I'd go on that for me. I'd like a tad bit of cushion. Pretty nice report though man. Don't get down about the TBN.

 

[teddyboy]

I put M1 HM 10W30 in this time. I too like a cushion. I'm thinking that I'll probably continue to use the HM oil and change every 7500 or so.

 

[shpankey]

Wise choice. That's a great oil. I'm running it in my wifes high mileage SUV. Hoping it can clean that engine up a bit and go for 7 or 8k miles. Everything I've seen on that oil is absolutely terrific. So I'm confident with it.

 

[Captain_Klink]

don't they guarantee EP for 15,000 mile?

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: shpankey
So it's below their usual cut off TBN of 1.0 and they say to go 800 more miles?
TBN is an overrated parameter which is a best kept secret in tribology. I am not saying it is irrelevant, just do not sweat it.

 

[Cup of Joe]

The oil has only slightly thickened so the "reported" TBN is not having any effect on oxidization. Over all it looks very good.

FYI M1 HM has a higher starting TBN then M1 EP in VOA's performed by Blackstone (EP 10.5 vs HM 12.5) per the VOA's in hand.

 

[teddyboy]

Here are the key elements of their warranty(I edited out parts that don't apply to the present discussion). Clearly they're not warranting the oil to have a TBN above 1.0 for 15k. Moreover, there is a clause regardng severe use. I wonder if that could become a major loophole as almost every user engages in what could be called severe use.

ExxonMobil Lubricants & Petroleum Specialties Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation (“ExxonMobil”), provides this limited warranty to the purchasers who use Mobil 1 Extended Performance lubricant in their vehicles. This limited warranty covers the lubricant and critical engine parts lubricated by the lubricant. ExxonMobil warrants its lubricants to be free from defects and that the lubricant you purchased will protect your vehicle’s critical engine parts from oil related failure.

This limited warranty is valid for 15,000 miles or one (1) year from the date of purchase or installation, whichever is earlier, regardless of the vehicle's mileage.

 

[JAG]

Isn't this one of the sludger Camry models?

 

[tig1]

I have been using EP since it came out several years ago. Last year I did one UOA with almost 10K and it was very good. A friend is doing 15K with the 5-30EP and his oil and M1 filter look great after a change. Like YK I wonder if TBN isn't over rated. I see guys going 15K on regular M1 5-30 and put 250-300K on engines that continue to stay clean and run well. Could we be over teching this oil thing? Just asking.

 

[RedOak]

You saved yourself time and money by going the mileage that you did with the same filter. At current cost's of conventional oil like valvoline and castrol over 15 dollars you saved yourself a oil change and kept waste oil down. Even with the low tbn this report is very good considering the high mileage of this unit. A good conventional like PYB or MC5k with keep your car in fine shape but at half the interval so there is merit in using synthetic oil here.

 

[teddyboy]

This Camry is one of the vehicles that were prone to sludging. However, the recommended OCI on that vehicle was 10k; most people would have used conventional dino. How many problems would they have seen with dino using a 5k oci or synthetic at 10k? Just a guess, but probably not so many.

It did occur to me that we're over analyzing this and maybe the tbn is not as important as many of us believe. However, I am risk averse and like a good margin of safety. Using M1HM with a 7500 oci seems a reasonable compromise.

So far as expense is concerned, the added cost of oil and a filter seems trivial relative to the value of even a 208,000 mile car. The time and waste oil arguments are the most ocmpelling

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Could we be over teching this oil thing? Just asking.
yes and no: modern lubricants are high tech and rather complex. The TBN value is useful when we know what it really is and how to make it useful. Most end users do not. And that is fine.Blackstone is ambiguous and precise at the same time. Majority of adult patients played doctors in childhood. When they grow up they learn about dangers of little knowledge and play automotive tribologists. It is fun after all and much safer.

 

[FZ1]

Right,it's over teched. I change my EP every 6 months,whether it needs it,or not. Lol.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: teddyboy
This Camry is one of the vehicles that were prone to sludging. However, the recommended OCI on that vehicle was 10k; most people would have used conventional dino. How many problems would they have seen with dino using a 5k oci or synthetic at 10k? Just a guess, but probably not so many.


That pretty much nails it. Toyota's owner manual was too lenient on the OCI. Most probably not only ran dino for 10k, but likely never even checked the oil level for 10k.

Your plan sounds like a good one. I would cut the OCI back a bit too, but continue with the same oil and filter. Like you, I'd rather change it a little early, than push it too hard. Oil & filters are cheaper than engines. And 7,500 miles is still a good OCI.

-Spyder

 

[Turk]

I would not go 9k on this oil in this engine. 8k max.

 

[shpankey]

Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: shpankey
So it's below their usual cut off TBN of 1.0 and they say to go 800 more miles?
TBN is an overrated parameter which is a best kept secret in tribology. I am not saying it is irrelevant, just do not sweat it.

I know you're right... but why push things? His oil was fine and did a great job it looks like. I'm just saying, I'd go a little less miles, not a little more. It's just not worth it to gain 1k miles for the peace of mind. It's not like 8k miles is an early change or anything.

 

[Oregoonian]

I am currently using M1 5w20EP...but I'm considering going to M1 0w20 on my next fill. I see your using 0w20 in another vehicle.

Is there any chance you'll do analysis on the 0w20?
____________________________________________
2003 Ford Focus SE (2.3L) / 88K
M1 5w20EP / OCI: 1 year or 10K +/-
Filter: M1 EP

 

[teddyboy]

There is some woman named Jill out there who is having UOAs done? I love my wife, but a woman that gets UOAs? That could be pretty tempting.

 

[teddyboy]

Right now the 07 Camry is under warranty so the oil is being changed every 5000. There doesn't seem to be much point to a UOA with that oci. Once the warranty runs out later this year, I'll go to a 7500 oci and will do at least one UOA then.

I've pretty much decided that 7500 is going to be the oci on everything we own: my 08 Volvo S60, wife's 07 Camry, 97 Camry football car and daughter's 98 camry.