Havoline Pro-DS 5w30 -- 9,044 mi -- 2014 Mazda 3 with 2.0L

[Artem]

This is the third and final sample of this oil.

I dragged this out until 15% oil life left and was just itching with anticipation to get under the car and change the oil and have a look around to make sure all is well.

The 2nd sample @ 7,540 mile UOA thread can be found ——> HERE

The 1st sample @ 5,305 mile UOA thread can be found ——> HERE

Can't wait for the new Havoline Pro RS formula to finally hit ChinaMart shelves so i can try that out.

I sent a second sample to Oil Analyzers for a second opinion. I'm not sure where they got Diesel out of a Mazda 3 but ok...

OIL Chevron Havoline Pro-DS 5w30 Synthetic 

MILES IN USE: 9,044 miles 

Make up Oil: ZERO




ALUMINUM 2 

CHROMIUM 0 

IRON 12 

COPPER 0 

LEAD 0 

TIN 0 

MOLYBDENUM 254 

NICKEL 0 

MANGANESE 0 

SILVER 0 

TITANIUM 0 

POTASSIUM 0 

BORON 35 

SILICON 10 

SODIUM 4 

CALCIUM 1438 

MAGNESIUM 494 

PHOSPHORUS 647 

ZINC 801 

BARIUM 0 





Values Should Be*





SUS VIS 210* F 53.1 56-63

cSt @ 212*F 8.20 9.1-11.3

FLASHPOINT F 4390 >385

Fuel %  
Antifreeze 0.0 0.0

WATER 0.0  
INSOLUBLES 0.3  
TBN 2.7 >1.0

TAN 4.1

 

[JavierH19]

yeah id say 15% more is doable with this oil. But 2.7 is getting there.

 

[Artem]

yeah id say 15% more is doable with this oil. But 2.7 is getting there.

Yea it can definitely last 10k in my particular case / usage from the looks of it.

 

[Popsy]

BS less than 0,5% fuel, and Oil Analyzers 4.6%

 

[himemsys]

This oil seems to be on the thin side from the get-go. Would probably do well in a lot of engines that call for 20 grade.

This is not the first time I've noticed Boron dropping consistently with miles driven. Out of all the detergents/additives, it seems to be the one that consistently drops the more miles you put on the oil. I have a feeling if you know the starting Boron on a given oil, you can use the Boron depletion itself to give a rough idea of how much oil life is left.

 

[Artem]

BS less than 0,5% fuel, and Oil Analyzers 4.6%

Yea I thought that was very strange as well. Somebody is obviously wrong here. Blackstone’s flashpoint doesn’t coincide with 5% fuel or else I’d expect it to be 320F or something ridiculous.

Oil didn’t smell like fuel (just nasty used oil stench) and my sampling technique was the same as always in order to pull oil that shows accurate daily operating conditions (after coming home from work)

 

[Artem]

This oil seems to be on the thin side from the get-go. Would probably do well in a lot of engines that call for 20 grade.

This is not the first time I've noticed Boron dropping consistently with miles driven. Out of all the detergents/additives, it seems to be the one that consistently drops the more miles you put on the oil. I have a feeling if you know the starting Boron on a given oil, you can use the Boron depletion itself to give a rough idea of how much oil life is left.

hmmmm. Interesting point on the Boron.

Regarding the thin viscosity though… I don’t think that’s right. If I bought a 5w30, I want it to stay that way.

I use this same oil in Wifey’s GMC Acadia that spec‘s 5w30 as well as other engines that also spec 5w30. I don’t want a 20 grade to be flowing thru there.

But it might just be this engine & driving style that shears the oil a bit.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Everything looks pretty good but my thinking says your viscosity was slipping away. Looking at your data I'd be changing at about 7500 miles.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yea I thought that was very strange as well. Somebody is obviously wrong here. Blackstone’s flashpoint doesn’t coincide with 5% fuel or else I’d expect it to be 320F or something ridiculous.

Oil didn’t smell like fuel (just nasty used oil stench) and my sampling technique was the same as always in order to pull oil that shows accurate daily operating conditions (after coming home from work)

Well, GC directly measures fuel content, unlike Blackstone's "inference" method. And Blackstone doesn't know the virgin flashpoint of each lubricant, which puts it even more out of whack.

PDS shows 10.8cSt @ 100C for this oil for the SP version and a flashpoint of 460F. Gasoline is ~0.5cSt, the Widman calc gives us ~9.2cSt with fuel dilution, so some mechanical shear there too.

 

[PimTac]

Yea I thought that was very strange as well. Somebody is obviously wrong here. Blackstone’s flashpoint doesn’t coincide with 5% fuel or else I’d expect it to be 320F or something ridiculous.

Oil didn’t smell like fuel (just nasty used oil stench) and my sampling technique was the same as always in order to pull oil that shows accurate daily operating conditions (after coming home from work)

It has been said on here multitudes of times that Blackstone’s measuring of fuel dilution is off.

 

[Popsy]

Well, GC directly measures fuel content, unlike Blackstone's "inference" method. And Blackstone doesn't know the virgin flashpoint of each lubricant, which puts it even more out of whack.

PDS shows 10.8cSt @ 100C for this oil for the SP version and a flashpoint of 460F. Gasoline is ~0.5cSt, the Widman calc gives us ~9.2cSt with fuel dilution, so some mechanical shear there too.

Can you really infer viscosity with gasoline based on the calculator only? Or can gasoline have an effect on some viscosity improvers or something, and affect viscosity more than "just" dilution?

 

[Artem]

It has been said on here multitudes of times that Blackstone’s measuring of fuel dilution is off.

Yea but I still expected SOME amount of calculated fuel dilution based on flashpoint alone… isn’t that how we always do it with BS’s reports?

 

[OVERKILL]

Can you really infer viscosity with gasoline based on the calculator only? Or can gasoline have an effect on some viscosity improvers or something, and affect viscosity more than "just" dilution?

The calculator just calculates, as the name would imply, the final viscosity of the two fluids if they were just mixed virgin at those ratios. I use it as a figure for what the viscosity should be if the ratio of the fuel to oil was the only factor in viscosity loss.

Of course, as we know, that's not the only factor, which is one of the reasons (along with lab accuracy as to fuel content, batch variance...etc) the OP's result didn't match the calculated figure. There is more in play.

@MolaKule would be more knowledgable than I on the impact, if there is one, of fuel on VII polymers.

The problem with the Blackstone reports is of course that, since they don't actually properly measure fuel, and the percentage is subsequently always so small, that a lot of what would rightly be attributed to fuel dilution if from a lab that used GC, instead gets construed as mechanical shear.

 

[Gene K]

I think the reason Blackstone didn't infer any fuel was that 390F was above their 385F "trigger". i also suspect a retest would have given a lower flashpoint.

I've come to the conclusion my nose and a blotter are more accurate at spotting fuel dilution than Blackstone.

 

[The Critic]

Can't wait for the new Havoline Pro RS formula to finally hit ChinaMart shelves so i can try that out.

Thanks for the tip - I was not even aware of this offering until you mentioned it.

This appears to be an "ultra-premium" offering that is positioned above their current ProDS. I think they are employing a strategy that is similar to Valvoline's Extended Protection.

 

[FZ1]

Everything looks pretty good but my thinking says your viscosity was slipping away. Looking at your data I'd be changing at about 7500 miles.

This^^^^^^^^^^^. Would keep your vis up a little and the fuel out more often.

 

[JoelB]

Thanks for the tip - I was not even aware of this offering until you mentioned it.

This appears to be an "ultra-premium" offering that is positioned above their current ProDS. I think they are employing a strategy that is similar to Valvoline's Extended Protection.

View attachment 92639

Classic silly marketing. Premium and best should be swapped. It's either the best and it's at the top, or it's not the best.

 

[kschachn]

Yea but I still expected SOME amount of calculated fuel dilution based on flashpoint alone… isn’t that how we always do it with BS’s reports?

You're assuming flash point is being measured accurately.

 

[The Critic]

Classic silly marketing. Premium and best should be swapped. It's either the best and it's at the top, or it's not the best.

That's just semantics.

But yes, I do think most oil brands have way too many products.

 

[JoelB]

That's just semantics.

But yes, I do think most oil brands have way too many products.

Right, I'm not knocking the product. It's just the marketing gets so silly sometimes. But if it works it works.