M1 0W-40 or Red Line 5W-30 in a Porsche Cayenne Turbo?

[Jeffrey Behr]

OK, G-Man, how much is your wager? Ready to put your money where your mouth is?

I'd guess the price to replace 2 turbos at about $10K. How 'bout a wager of $1K? We could place both moneys in trust and let the Porsche dealer determine if the turbos are worn out at 50,000 miles, which will happen around the end of '05 at the rate I pile on miles.

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I appreciate all the advice and opinions. Altho I currently have 4 changes of M1 0W-40 on hand, I'm tending toward RL 5W-40 year 'round (assuming I can find it--I've e-mailed them) or M1 SUV 5W-40 year-round...or maybe the M1 0W-40 I have in the 'winter' and the SUV 5W-40 in the summer. I'll research more and, I expect, have more questions.

BTW, can't find Red Line 5W-40 anywhere. Could someone post a link, pls?

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

Speaking with Dave at Redline about my turbo SRT-4, he recommends 2000 miles with non-synthetic. Remember this is coming from a synthetic oil salesperson. I gotta think he is pretty reliable. I'm running Castrol 10w30 for the first 2000 miles, dumped the factory fluid at 500 miles. If you avoid shutting the engine down after running it hard you should be safe from coking. If you run it hard , then use the last couple miles before you get home as a cool down lap, if you may. If not let it idle for about 3 minutes before shutdown. In normal driving , cool down is not required.

Joey

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeffrey Behr:
OK, G-Man, how much is your wager? Ready to put your money where your mouth is?

I'd guess the price to replace 2 turbos at about $10K. How 'bout a wager of $1K? We could place both moneys in trust and let the Porsche dealer determine if the turbos are worn out at 50,000 miles, which will happen around the end of '05 at the rate I pile on miles.

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No thanks. (Believe me, if the bearing goes in one of your tubros, you won't need the Porsche dealer to tell you.)

I am curious, however. Why would you trust some guy on an internet site for motorcycles for break in advice for your $70,000 Porsche, versus what Porsche recommends? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Idrinkmotoroil:
Speaking with Dave at Redline about my turbo SRT-4, he recommends 2000 miles with non-synthetic. Remember this is coming from a synthetic oil salesperson. I gotta think he is pretty reliable.

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This sounds like Red Line's standard boiler plate about not using their synthetic for at least 2000 miles in a new engine. If the car came from the factory with synthetic in the sump, I think it's foolish to run anything else—especially in a turbocharged engine.

 

[WeyounDS9]

Whoa fellas,

A little more friendly towards the new guy please.

What he refers to is a small but growing school of thought, when it comes to driving-in internal combustion engines.

he came here for advice and we may disagree with it, but disrespectful remarks (and finger giving smilies) are not called for.

Instead thoughtful recommendations of what we would do are called for.

Fred...

PS: I always felt the finger giving smilie should be dropped altogether form our options menu

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by palmerwmd:
Whoa fellas,

A little more friendly towards the new guy please.

What he refers to is a small but growing school of thought, when it comes to driving-in internal combustion engines.

he came here for advice and we may disagree with it, but disrespectful remarks (and finger giving smilies) are not called for.

Instead thoughtful recommendations of what we would do are called for.

Fred...

PS: I always felt the finger giving smilie should be dropped altogether form our options menu

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Hold up a minute. In what way was I disrespectful?

And the ascii text that produces what you are calling "the finger giving smile" is lol, which means "laughing out loud." I thought that's what this emoticon was supposed to indicate. I've never thought of it as giving someone "the finger," and that's certainly not the way I use it.

 

[sbc350gearhead]

I think the turbo's will be fine. I wouldn't have done it, but that is me. Changing to a good syn, should eventually clean out any gunk in the turbos. Good luck with your vehicle.

 

[wulimaster]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeffrey Behr:

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BTW, can't find Red Line 5W-40 anywhere. Could someone post a link, pls?

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I just looked at a Redline catalogue I picked up last week at SuperDuty Headquarters and it doesn't list 5w40 or 0w40.

For non racing oils it lists. 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40, 15w50, 20w50, 15w40.

I don't think you will ever need the 0w or 5w hear in Phoenix. Even if you occasionally go up to Flag. Synthetic 10w flows pretty well at down to -5F which is probably colder than it ever gets in this state.

Minimum would be a thick 30 weight.

I havn't run redline but I do run Amsoil 10w30 in my gasser and 15w40 in my diesel. I believe TOY4x4 runs Redline in Scottsdale.

[ December 25, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: wulimaster ]

 

[buster]

You can get RL 5w-40 from www.myoilshop.com I believe. It's probably the best 40wt oil out there. Great choice for this truck. They don't list the oil but I think they carry it.

 

[moribundman]

And now there'll be a ruckus about buster calling the Cayenne a truck.

 

[DockHoliday]

quote:

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Originally posted by palmerwmd:
Whoa fellas,

A little more friendly towards the new guy please.

What he refers to is a small but growing school of thought, when it comes to driving-in internal combustion engines.

he came here for advice and we may disagree with it, but disrespectful remarks (and finger giving smilies) are not called for.

Instead thoughtful recommendations of what we would do are called for.

Fred...

PS: I always felt the finger giving smilie should be dropped altogether form our options menu

---

Fred - I agree that some of the posts were harshly worded, although I think the authors had good intentions. I can only imagine how I would feel if I had just purchased such a vehicle, and then received those posts. I probably would not have taken them very well.

I am no expert, but I don't think he did any harm to his turbos. People use dino in turbo motors all the time w/o problems. If dino was that bad for turbos, there would be warnings from car makers not to use dino oil.

BTW - This

emoticon is laughing and pointing upwards to indicate that a prev post is funny.

 

[theguru]

Whilst I choose not to run mineral in my Nissan gasoline turbo, the factory fill is a 7.5/30 (a mobil blend). It is certainly not synthetic. They only put Mobil 1 5w-50 in it if you ask.

I doubt in the short time if he has run mineral that significant coking would have occured.

If the factory fill from Porsche was synthetic, then I would probably not put mineral in it at all for run-in. Just use the synthetic that was in there and change to a better sythetic later, making sure it meets the car manufacturers specs.

My 2 cents worth

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by DockHoliday:
If dino was that bad for turbos, there would be warnings from car makers not to use dino oil.

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There are such warnings! Porsche has specific oil requirements for its engines, and only a handful of oils out there meet those requirements. Mobil 1 0w40 is one of them, but there isn't a single non-synthetic 5w30 oil made that is Porsche approved. The owners manual will say that you MUST use an approved oil, just as it does in Mercedes-Benz manuals.

 

[DockHoliday]

G - I would expect warnings such as "DO NOT USE ANY OIL OTHER THAN SYNTHETIC". Most owners manuals are vague.

I drive a Volvo turbo (S60 R), and synthetic oil is not required (although I will only use synthetic). On my prev car, also a Volvo turbo, I used dino for the first 10K miles per the dealers recommendation. I put 70K miles on with no issues. I am active on several Volvo forums, and I have never heard of anyone having turbo problems.

G - Do you have any first hand experience with turbos and coking?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by DockHoliday:
G - Do you have any first hand experience with turbos and coking?

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The answer to your question is "no" (at least not with gasoline engines). I suppose your question is meant to invalidate what I said about mineral oil coking turbo bearings.

I don't have any first hand experience handling rattle snakes, either. Does that mean that my statement "Handling rattle snakes is dangerous" is invalid?

 

[DockHoliday]

G - Relax a bit, we are just talking about motor oil, and no, I am not trying to discredit you. I was wondering if you had experience a turbo failure. Thats all.

I am no expert, but IMHO, the advantages of synthetics are realized way down the road. Dino oils are very good these days, and the performance gap between dino and syn has been greatly reduced. I really don't think there was any harm done in only 2,000 miles. However, my opinions are only from various discussions, so I can't back up my opinions with facts or experience.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by DockHoliday:
I am no expert, but IMHO, the advantages of synthetics are realized way down the road. Dino oils are very good these days, and the performance gap between dino and syn has been greatly reduced. I really don't think there was any harm done in only 2,000 miles. However, my opinions are only from various discussions, so I can't back up my opinions with facts or experience.

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Motor oils have gotten better. But the main problem with turbo coking comes from the VI improver, and a conventional 5w30 is loaded with that.

My uncle lives on a 600 acre farm, and before he retired he and his two sons worked the land farming peanuts and cotton using a fleet of big Ford and John Deere tractors. My uncle burned up two turbos in one of the Ford tractors using a (supposedly) diesel-grade 10w30 he got from the local farm supply house. The dealer told him after the first turbo went that it was from the oil, and that even in the winter he should use straight 30 wt, or a diesel grade 15w40. After the second turbo, he finally got the message.

My cousin was the one who ran the John Deere tractors, and he never used anything but Amoco 300 30 wt year round. He's still running one tractor that is 20 years old with God-only-knows how many hours on it, and it still has the original turbocharger.

 

[Jeffrey Behr]

Again, thx, guys, for the info.

Some thoughts, in no particular sequence.
1. Both of us hope I never find bad bearings in the turbos.
2. The Cayenne's turbos are both oil and water cooled, and the water system includes a run-on pump (and radiator fans, of course) to cool the turbos after engine shutdown. The Turbo engine also includes 2 extra sections in the oilpump to scavenge the 2 turbos. P obviously was very concerned about cooling and lubing them.
3. Thx for the lead on RL 5W-40; I'll contact them.
4. No problem calling a Cayenne a truck. Mine weighs 5600 pounds full of gas and is rated to tow 7700 pounds!
5. I've started a spreadsheet comparing the specs of all oils I'm considering. So far Mobil 1 DELVAC 1 SHC 5W-40 looks mighty good. Has Mobil published specs on the SUV 5W-40? I couldn't find any. Wouldn't be surprised to find them VERY close to those of their DELVAC 1 SHC 5W-40.
5. I've not been offended by anyone's comments so far, altho G-man does seem rather quick to judge.

Well, time to prepare for a 2-day foto trip starting tomorrow morn. Again, thx.

 

[moribundman]

I'm in agreement with G-Man II. 5W-30 is nothing I'd use in a normally aspirated motor, but especially not in a turbo engine. Audi tells me not to use 5W-30 if driving fast for prolonged periods or in hot weather. Guess what a turbo does to that kind of oil!

As for changing the OEM fill so early, I simply don't think it's necessary. When I got my '96 Audi I was adviced that the first scheduled OC would be at 7500 miles. I didn't quite believe that this would be good for the motor and investigated more. In the end I changed the oil after 3k miles, and at this point that oil (per Audi a special break-in oil), was still clear as water. As for the paricles that are small enough to pass through the filter, do they really do any harm?

If that Cayenne were my car, I'd use a 5W-40 in it.

PS: My Audi has now almost 130k miles on the engine. I add maybe 1/2 oil between 10k mile oil changes to keep it topped off.

[ December 25, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[WeyounDS9]

GC seems to have good detergency (as well as being a great winter oil in turbo engines) maybe he should run that for a bit, to clean out what the dino oil left behind?

Other than that, I think the before mentioned M1 15w-50 is a great choice (turbo+AZ).

Fred...