M1 0W-40 or Red Line 5W-30 in a Porsche Cayenne Turbo?

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Coking can occur in 5 MINUTES!, never mind 1900 miles. One really hard run with no cool down and oil will be COOKING! in the turbo(s)...

I wouldn't want that oil to be a 5W30 dino...

That said, I'm not so sure coking is the problem it used to be...
With modern watercooled, ball-bearing turbos (which the Porsche may or may not have...) heat MAY? not be as intense in the turbo, thus coking MAY? not be a problem...

If the turbo(s) fail prematurely, the reason is probably pretty clear...

Only time will tell...
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With the watercooled turbo in my car I was told that generally I do not need to let the engine cool down, just turn it off like a NA car. However, it was suggested if I really flogged it then it was probably a good idea to let it cool down a bit befoer turning off. Best way to do this is to drive more gently prior to stopping rather than leave the car idling.

Now, on previous models, without water cooling, most owners have fitted turbo timers to make sure you don't turn it straight off, even when not driven hard. My sons exhaust manifolds have be known to glow after a hard run. He has a turbo timer and it runs from as little as 30sec to several minutes after turning off. He has rebuilt his turbo himself (with help from me) and there was little evidence of coking after 60,000kms. The car had probably been used as a "drift car"in japan prior.


Nice car, enjoy it.
 
My Thoughts:

1) This car is specifically designed for Mobil 1 0w-40, why not use it?

2) I love Redline, but given the cost of a replacement motor, and #1 above, I would create the potential for the dealer to dispute any failed engine parts (remember this is a v-8 not the pancake 6, 928 horror stories in my head).

3) If you want to play with oils, why not use Motul or another oil on the approved list?

4) I would go with a 5000-10000 OCI, if for no other reason to enhance the resale value to the next Porsche Weenie
smile.gif


Cary
 
FWIW as a turbo owner (NOT a Cayenne) I'd go Redline 5W40 or Amsoil 20W50 or Delvac 1 even. I sure wouldn't have 5W30 anywhere near it if mine and definitely not a dino of any sort. Good luck with this fine vehicle.
 
IMO, RL or Delvac 1 are superior choices to the M1 0w-40. I can't stand the 0w-40 and I don't even like the idea of it. It's just too shear happy. This oil is NOT the best choice for the Porsche. They should rename this oil to 0w-30 bc that is what it ends up being! They should have explored other options IMO instead of using this oil.
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In fact, the new SUV oil should be a much better choice for this SUV.

If you do use the M1 0w-40, make sure you keep some Auto Rx on hand.
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Unless this oil has some extra esters or cleaners built in.

[ December 26, 2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
"When I got my '96 Audi I was adviced that the first scheduled OC would be at 7500 miles. I didn't quite believe that this would be good for the motor and investigated more. In the end I changed the oil after 3k miles, and at this point that oil (per Audi a special break-in oil), was still clear as water."

Our 2003 Audi Allroad Bi-Turbo comes from the factory with Synthetic 0W30 and 10K OCI's. I have 8200 miles on the oil and it is black and I've already had to add a qt.

Nowhere in the manual does it state NOT to use dino oil with the twin turbo's. I routinely see 240 degree oil temps when pulling a long steep grade up here in the mtns. The manual just states that you should back off the turbos if the oil hits 250 degrees until it cools down.

DEWFPO
 
quote:
Mobil's dino oil isn't a particularly good choice
Click to expand...
..umm, yeah.

What I think is going on is the Porsche guy is trying to improve on the factory guidelines. First, you dump what is believed to be Mobil 1 0w-40 at 33(1) miles, for one of the lamest oils on the shelf...to "improve" things over the factory fill. Second, you are knocking yourself out to "improve" over the normal otc oils for your vehicle. I have a reputation for preserving the oem spirit, this is another example of why I do so.
I would have done the break-in differently. Gradually increase combustion pressures with deep throttle, low revs. Increase the revs gradually until the engine loosens up...it will tell you what it wants to do. Beat it once a day and then right before the oil change. A quick change about 5000-6000 miles with a normal Porsche-approved oil, done. 6 month up to 7500 mile oci. I don't know how to improve on that.
dunno.gif
 
Oil crusting in turbo bearings in my opinion really isn't an issue anymore with the advent of water cooled center sections/bearing cartridges, which run significantly cooler than dry center sections. Also, Porsche usues KKK turbochargers which utilize special alloys in certain areas of the turbine housing to control heat and allow more heat to go out the exhaust instead of being absorbed by the housing. Kind of like ceramics and stuff
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And what's up with knocking the break-in theory? Every repair manual I've seen says take a fresh engine out on the highway, put it in 5 th gear, and do about 15 high gear romps from 50 to 80 to seat the rings? Especially high performance repair books I have say to do this, and to never baby a new engine around at constant low rpms
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The thing is, is that they probably do that on a dyno in the Porsche factory!
 
Porsche spends hundreds of millions of Euros engineering and testing the Cayenne engine, using the knowledge and experience gained from decades of turbo experience. Then they back it up with a 4 year warranty.

I think following Porsche's instructions regarding break-in and oil requirements MIGHT! be a good idea...!!!

But to each his own, I guess...
shocked.gif
 
OK, here are some pictures of the oil pan from a '99 Saab turbo that used the wrong oil/interval. These turbos are water cooled, & Saab's been building turbo engines for a long time (over 20 yrs).

With the '03 9³ model, Saab bumped up the oil capacity by 50% (from 4L to 6L) & now requires the use of fully synthetic oil for the on-board OLM to be accurate.

And buster, you should start qualifying your random claims. Yes, we see M1 0W-40 shearing in the most abusive of conditions. It's the single most popular oil for turbocharged engines we have on this site! If you look at the few N/A UOAs we have, you'll see quite different results. If you don't like it & don't want to use it, that's great. Just don't propagate erroneous info from your non-user perspective, OK?
 
Jeff, I too used the mototuneusa break in stragey for my new car. I did not use 5W30 though. I used 10W30 and called it close enough! The first 58 miles had the OEM oil in it and I drove it pretty hard that first 58 miles home!

I would recommend against leaveing 5W30 in a turbo charged application very long. I could care less if it is synthetic or conventional 5W30 just is not the ideal oil! The cokeing that is takeing place should sort itself especialy once you switch over to Redline.


Plenty of turbo's have lived long happy lifes on conventional oil. I am guessing that your Porsche circulates coolant after shut down through the turbo houseing for 2 minutes to help prevent cokeing.

I think that any good synthetic in the 40wt or higher area will work well. It is hard to go wrong with Amsoil 20W50,15W40, Mobil1 15W50,Mobil Delvac1 Redline 5W40,10W40 or 15W40.

I buy my Redline 5W40 at myoilshop.com. I am sure that this would give you year round protection.
 
quote:
"When I got my '96 Audi I was adviced that the first scheduled OC would be at 7500 miles. I didn't quite believe that this would be good for the motor and investigated more. In the end I changed the oil after 3k miles, and at this point that oil (per Audi a special break-in oil), was still clear as water."

Our 2003 Audi Allroad Bi-Turbo comes from the factory with Synthetic 0W30 and 10K OCI's. I have 8200 miles on the oil and it is black and I've already had to add a qt.

DEWFPO
Click to expand...
Regarding what you quoted me saying:

1. Back in '96 Audis came with a special break-in oil, which was not an XW-30 oil.

2. My car's engine is normaly aspirated, not turbo or bi-turbo, and thus much easier on the oil than yours.

3. Audi may have switched by now to extended drain in the US (10k isn't quite there yet), making you use oil that meets VW 503.00. That's a speculation on my part, though.

4. It's common for Audi engines to not need any oil added between scheduled oil changes (unless the engine is leaking oil, as is common with Audis). My '96 2.8 12v needs maybe 1/2-3/4 quart between 10k mi oil changes.
 
DrewGT99 wrote:

quote:
And what's up with knocking the break-in theory? Every repair manual I've seen says take a fresh engine out on the highway, put it in 5 th gear, and do about 15 high gear romps from 50 to 80 to seat the rings? Especially high performance repair books I have say to do this, and to never baby a new engine around at constant low rpms [I dont know] The thing is, is that they probably do that on a dyno in the Porsche factory!
Click to expand...
I can't speak for other makes, but VW and Audi (not only Porsche - I bet the same goes for Mercedes, BMW, Opel, etc) engines have been run on the bench before they are installed. The rings have been seated...

[ December 28, 2003, 06:22 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
 
There is some internet lore to the effect that Porsche does an oil flush as well.

I remember the vendor servicemen spending weeks flushing the lube oil system (going to progressively smaller and smaller screens) on their multi-million dollar compressors and turbines on some of the big process plants we put in.

I doubt anyone short of a Porsche trained service rep (and I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have to sign a non-disclosure agreement) can say for sure what Porsche does in their engine shop in regards to either the assembly or final prep of an engine, they hold these cards close to their chest.

[ December 28, 2003, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]
 
The turbo's will be fine. We're talking about good-quality, clean 5W-30 used on a short interval. Pretty rough on the guy.
dunno.gif

Wish I could afford a nice rig like that.
 
I talked with the P-car owner about his European Delivery experience and he mentioned the conversation he had with the technician at the Zuffenhausen factory. When he asked about the proper break-in for his air-cooled 993 the technician gave him "the look" and said not to drive at full speed for long periods of time, that's all.

I found it especially interesting because BMW gives very specific instructions on break-in for both regular and M-cars.
 
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