Lug Nuts Seizing Up

[KrisZ]

Yup, only threads should be lubed, not the cone face.

 

[Number_35]

First reason.

Probably you stretched the studs.




Second reason.

Bingo.

Why you shouldn't apply oil onto the cone? This reduces friction ONCE when tightening thus the same torque allows for a much higher tension. Half a year later? That oil is long gone and you feel the real tension and torque to break the nuts loose.

Just never do it. I'd bet GM recommends not to use a air gun withou limiter and not apply oil.
If you actually think you need it just apply some tiny bit of anti seize on the theads only.
.

Good information! You're saying that the torque is generated by the face of the cone on the rim, rather than thread-on-thread, correct?

And by implication, if there is significant friction between the threads, then the lug nut might be under-torqued as a result of not enough of the torque reading being contributed by friction between the cone and the rim. (My wording is awkward, but I hope makes sense.)

I do use a small bit of anti-seize on the threads, but not on the cones.

 

[KrisZ]

It’s a combination, but most people think only threads contribute to torque. The area under the head contributes greatly though. And if you have other materials under, like gaskets etc. that affects the torque as well.

 

[Blueshound]

It’s a combination, but most people think only threads contribute to torque. The area under the head contributes greatly though. And if you have other materials under, like gaskets etc. that affects the torque as well.

View attachment 130987

Interesting. I would have thought tension / bolt stretch would be more of a factor.

 

[George7941]

Just checked the owners' manual, it says not to apply any lubricant anywhere, so I will stop applying the oil to the cone face.

On the medium duty trucks I work on, they recommend oil at the end of the nut. See pic. But these are hub piloted wheels and have washered nuts. Looks like I should follow a different procedure for stud piloted wheels and not use oil.

There is not any significant rust or corrosion on the nuts and on the mating cone faces on the rim.

I will find out next spring if not lubricating the cone face leads to easier lug nut removal

 

[MattPersman]

That's nothing. Your nuts ain't really tight until you need a 4 foot breaker bar PLUS a 5 foot cheater pipe.

View attachment 130910

Problem with that is you don’t know if it came loose or broke lol. Happened to me on a bolt (it broke)

 

[willbur]

It’s a combination, but most people think only threads contribute to torque. The area under the head contributes greatly though. And if you have other materials under, like gaskets etc. that affects the torque as well.

View attachment 130987

Permatex recommends normal torque for bolts when using their AZ.

Can you provide the referance/source for the picture you provided?

 

[atikovi]

Problem with that is you don’t know if it came loose or broke lol. Happened to me on a bolt (it broke)

Pretty easy to see the stud still in the nut to tell it's broken off if the missing stud alone isn't a clue.

 

[KrisZ]

Permatex recommends normal torque for bolts when using their AZ.

Can you provide the referance/source for the picture you provided?

It’s a pretty good read

https://www.pcb.com/Contentstore/mk...Fastener-Design-and-Analysis-White-Paper).pdf

 

[willbur]

It’s a pretty good read

https://www.pcb.com/Contentstore/mk...Fastener-Design-and-Analysis-White-Paper).pdf

Wow. it sure is! Thank you.

 

[Cherrybomb]

IMO you have a stretch problem,basically any bolt and nut combo that you can't reasonably finger tighten has a paint,rust,corrosion, cross thread or stretch problem.Your job is to try to figure it out the easy way.Try a different nut.They make thread chasers for your studs and lugs,sometimes its only a boogered up thread. When I bought my utility trailer I found individual chasers for studs and lugs,a few extra nuts,if your in rust belt like me,be real careful, especially with that torque gun

 

[JHZR2]

Are the lug bolts/nuts the same for alloy and steel wheels?

I used to have this issue big time on my 91 BMW. The lug bolt seats were the same, but I found out the actual lug bolts were different. Anti seize didn’t help, oil/grease didn’t help. I even was accused on YouTube of putting my impact gun in forward mode vs reverse as the reason they wouldn’t come off. Ummm, no. Me needing to stand many feet away on the end of a cheater pipe was not tightening them up…. There was genuine chemical corrosion from whatever coating was/wasn’t there.