Lug nut issue

[Wheel366]

Has anyone had an issue with a Honda CR-V, specifically the 2014, with the lug nuts loosening up? I had this issue maybe about 2 years ago with my wifes car about 200-300 miles after a tire rotation. Had numerous rotations since and new tires. The last time the wheels were off the car was the last rotation over 7k miles ago. Just recently, I started hearing a clunk which sounded like it could be a worn bushing. Then on Sunday, this knocking sound started where if you pressed the gas or hit the brakes, it would stop. But, if you let off the gas you would hear it. After reseaching (sound sounded like it was coming from under the car in the middle not a specific wheel), I came across a post about lug nuts. So, I went outside and checked and low and behold 1 lug nut was missing from the passenger front tire and the other 4 were loose. I tighened up the 4 and just replaced the 5th.

Could there be something wrong with the studs? They don't seem to be stripped. I don't understand why after 7k miles they would come loose. I have never had this happen with any other cars before and it has only been 2 times. The first time was really really bad where the whole car shook and all the wheels were loose. Also, the last rotation I went back 25 miles later for a retorque.

 

[bdcardinal]

Back when I worked at Sears Auto there was a note on every RO to bring the vehicle in after a certain number of miles and we would re-torque the lugnuts.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Is the mating surfaces for the lug and wheel clean and smooth - or were they buggered up at some point. It the mating surfaces don't match properly they can back off.

Threads may have stretched. The lug nuts themselves are designed to strip instead of the studs if overtightened - or there supposed to be. I would try new lug nuts - they are really a wear part, especially if someone has overtightened them at some point.

 

[twX]

Since you didn't tighten them yourself, it's hard to say whether they were under-tightened by the shop. Are they rusty? Rusty bolts or nuts will require more torque to achieve the same clamping force, so you may want to tighten them a bit beyond the spec.

A better way to achieve this is to put some anti-seize on the rusty bolts, then tighten them to spec. Shops won't do this, but it's good practice if you know what you're doing. Using anti-seize on a new bolt will result in over-tightening if the torque spec is used.

 

[supton]

Alloys or steel wheels? I don’t think our crv has had them loosen (and I always forget to check), but my vw would “always” need to be retorqued.

If they have gotten loose a couple of times, maybe replace the nuts and then just retorque after 50miles going forward.

 

[Trav]

Aluminum wheels should be retorqued after 50-100 miles of initial tightening. The rear of the wheel where it mates to the hub and the hub must be clean.

 

[Wheel366]

Since you didn't tighten them yourself, it's hard to say whether they were under-tightened by the shop. Are they rusty? Rusty bolts or nuts will require more torque to achieve the same clamping force, so you may want to tighten them a bit beyond the spec.

A better way to achieve this is to put some anti-seize on the rusty bolts, then tighten them to spec. Shops won't do this, but it's good practice if you know what you're doing. Using anti-seize on a new bolt will result in over-tightening if the torque spec is used.

I don't think they are rusty but I will check. I'm about due for a tire balance and rotation. Made an appt for the 30th. I'll ask them what they think in terms of the lug nut condition and the studs.

 

[Nukeman7]

It sounds like the lug nuts were not tightened to correct specs (80 ft./lbs.) with a torque wrench by whoever rotated the wheels. Or possibly the lug nuts were changed from OEM to something that has the wrong seating angle/shape. I know that some Hondas use a different shoulder pattern on lug nuts for alloy wheels vs. the steel wheels and compact spare donut tires.

If they are the correct lug nuts for your alloy wheels (check your owner's manual regarding the spare tire/lug nuts), you will need to re-torque them with a decent torque wrench and monitor closely to determine if they loosen again. I suspect it was mechanic error both times it became loose.

If you take it in to the shop on the 30th, ask them what torque are they tightening the lug nuts to and visually observe them use the torque wrench for final tightening. Many lazy techs will simply run them on haphazardly with an impact wrench and assume it is "good".

 

[Wheel366]

Alloys or steel wheels? I don’t think our crv has had them loosen (and I always forget to check), but my vw would “always” need to be retorqued.

If they have gotten loose a couple of times, maybe replace the nuts and then just retorque after 50miles going forward.

I believe they are alloy wheels. I have never had a car that has this happen to.

 

[Wheel366]

It sounds like the lug nuts were not tightened to correct specs (80 ft./lbs.) with a torque wrench by whoever rotated the wheels. Or possibly the lug nuts were changed from OEM to something that has the wrong seating angle/shape. I know that some Hondas use a different shoulder pattern on lug nuts for alloy wheels vs. the steel wheels and compact spare donut tires.

If they are the correct lug nuts for your alloy wheels (check your owner's manual regarding the spare tire/lug nuts), you will need to re-torque them with a decent torque wrench and monitor closely to determine if they loosen again. I suspect it was mechanic error both times it became loose.

Do you have a recommendation for a torque wrench? Something good but not too pricey? These are the stock lug nuts. The replacement ones I got from Honda are identical except shiny and not old with 148k miles on them.

 

[Wheel366]

Aluminum wheels should be retorqued after 50-100 miles of initial tightening. The rear of the wheel where it mates to the hub and the hub must be clean.

I have alloy wheels but I will have them check next week when I get them rotated.

 

[sloinker]

Do you have a recommendation for a torque wrench? Something good but not too pricey? These are the stock lug nuts. The replacement ones I got from Honda are identical except shiny and not old with 148k miles on them.

Get a 1/2" Harbor Freight torque wrench. Cheap and accurate enough for lug nuts. Buy the correct size deep well socket, don't use any extensions. See what the owners manual calls for torque and use that number for final torque with the wrench, criss cross tightening pattern after initial tightening, criss cross, of half specified torque is what I do.

 

[Nukeman7]

Do you have a recommendation for a torque wrench? Something good but not too pricey? These are the stock lug nuts. The replacement ones I got from Honda are identical except shiny and not old with 148k miles on them.

For tightening lug nuts, you can just get the cheap Harbor Freight $22 (1/2") torque wrench since it is not a precision critical value like for head bolts. Your lug nuts will also require either a 19mm or 21mm deep well socket.

If you want to splurge, this Harbor Freight QUINN torque wrench is specifically designed for torquing lugnuts:

Here is a coupon if you get the QUINN wrench.

 

[supton]

I believe they are alloy wheels. I have never had a car that has this happen to.

I never had it happen either—not until I got that VW with its alloy rims. THen I started hearing about how tire shops wanted you to go back for retorquing the lugs after 50 miles. Proved pretty quickly that that car needed that. Have not had that issue with steel rims though.

The HF wrench should be just fine. It’s a lug nut, not a rod bolt. Close enough is good enough here.

 

[fantastic]

Right after getting new tires installed. Was driving down the road & felt the terrible vibration. The loose lugnuts in the photo are not me loosening them that what they looked like when I snapped the photo. Tire shops are a disaster when it comes to properly torquing your wheels. Every time I rotate & torque my wheels it's never a problem so what does that tell you . The tire shop paid my cost on another used dually wheel adapter & wheel after some nagging. NEVER expect any shop to properly torque them & bring your own torque wrench anytime you have them removed. That's the lesson I learned quickly.

 

[Traction]

Honda uses BALL SEAT LUG NUTS, not 60-degree tapered lug nuts like everything else.

honda ball seat lug nuts. - Yahoo Image Search Results

 

[Wheel366]

Honda uses BALL SEAT LUG NUTS, not 60-degree tapered lug nuts like everything else.

honda ball seat lug nuts. - Yahoo Image Search Results

This is what mine look like.

 

[Wheel366]

Get a 1/2" Harbor Freight torque wrench. Cheap and accurate enough for lug nuts. Buy the correct size deep well socket, don't use any extensions. See what the owners manual calls for torque and use that number for final torque with the wrench, criss cross tightening pattern after initial tightening, criss cross, of half specified torque is what I do.

For tightening lug nuts, you can just get the cheap Harbor Freight $22 (1/2") torque wrench since it is not a precision critical value like for head bolts. Your lug nuts will also require either a 19mm or 21mm deep well socket.

View attachment 194001

If you want to splurge, this Harbor Freight QUINN torque wrench is specifically designed for torquing lugnuts:

View attachment 194000
Here is a coupon if you get the QUINN wrench.
View attachment 194002

Thanks guys. I'll check those out.

 

[Wheel366]

I never had it happen either—not until I got that VW with its alloy rims. THen I started hearing about how tire shops wanted you to go back for retorquing the lugs after 50 miles. Proved pretty quickly that that car needed that. Have not had that issue with steel rims though.

The HF wrench should be just fine. It’s a lug nut, not a rod bolt. Close enough is good enough here.

I have a 2001 S4 and never had this issue. I did have to replace a few lugs due to the head wearing out. And I never had them retorqued. I also haven't driven the car in a few years...

 

[bullwinkle]

Right after getting new tires installed. Was driving down the road & felt the terrible vibration. The loose lugnuts in the photo are not me loosening them that what they looked like when I snapped the photo. Tire shops are a disaster when it comes to properly torquing your wheels. Every time I rotate & torque my wheels it's never a problem so what does that tell you . The tire shop paid my cost on another used dually wheel adapter & wheel after some nagging. NEVER expect any shop to properly torque them & bring your own torque wrench anytime you have them removed. That's the lesson I learned quickly.

View attachment 194004View attachment 194005
View attachment 194006

Those look like the 140 foot pound washer style lugs that my F-450/F-SuperDuty has-those need to be pretty tight or the wheel will move around & oval the lug holes quickly. Lucky that didn’t fall off completely, that looks pretty bad. Glad mine are steel with SS covers & not alloys!