Dry vs Lubricated Lug Nuts

Lubricate threads - maybe.

Lubricate the cone or seat - never.

That link that @Trav posted is the first time I’ve ever seen lubrication specified for the cone itself.

Mercedes says to check All the surfaces, including bolt seats, hub surface, threads, bolts, and wheels for contamination, including grease or oil, and to remove all of it.

Then they go on to say specifically “do not apply grease or other lubricants to threads of wheel bolts, wheel nuts, wheel hubs, wheel flanges, or wheel studs.”

Volvo says to lubricate the hub center (on which the wheel centers) with their paste, which is antiseize. They don’t say one way or the other about thread lubrication.

But they have updated their wheel bolt design to a contained separate cone, like the bolt pictured by Trav’s link which seems to be less sensitive to over-tightening if lubricated.

CCD0CA8C-4547-4A3F-B402-A9EFDE77EA04.jpeg


Perhaps they know something about how their bolts are being installed?
 
Optimol(y) for paste-specific applications - cannot replace oil or grease lubrication. So, is it an antiseize or sealant? Definitely not a lube if it doesn't affect torque.

Is it Optimol or Optimolly?
 
Lubricate threads - maybe.

Lubricate the cone or seat - never.

That link that @Trav posted is the first time I’ve ever seen lubrication specified for the cone itself.

Mercedes says to check All the surfaces, including bolt seats, hub surface, threads, bolts, and wheels for contamination, including grease or oil, and to remove all of it.

Then they go on to say specifically “do not apply grease or other lubricants to threads of wheel bolts, wheel nuts, wheel hubs, wheel flanges, or wheel studs.”

Volvo says to lubricate the hub center (on which the wheel centers) with their paste, which is antiseize. They don’t say one way or the other about thread lubrication.

But they have updated their wheel bolt design to a contained separate cone, like the bolt pictured by Trav’s link which seems to be less sensitive to over-tightening if lubricated.

View attachment 149345

Perhaps they know something about how their bolts are being installed?
Those are the latest update for those bolts, Saab also uses them. For those bolts Saab wants lube on the cone and threads for some reason. The one piece bolts prior to these were a nightmare if no lube was used, the ones with a separate cone allowed the bolt to turn without trying to turn the cone so it helped to push the cone off the wheel. It is one of the old style that really jammed me up good last year, I was to the point after hitting it with an air hammer and 3/4 impact with a 1/2 reducer because the 17mm 3/4 drive would not fit in the hole, I broke a USA Proto impact and reducer and used a long pipe and still didn't budge, A power socket finally got it, that was a $70 hail mary before cutting it off and blowing the wheel away. I bought all new revised bolts like yours after that fiasco.
My guess is the depth of the cone, wheel material and wheel coating play a role in manufacturers recommendations.

Optimol(y) for paste-specific applications - cannot replace oil or grease lubrication. So, is it an antiseize or sealant? Definitely not a lube if it doesn't affect torque.

Is it Optimol or Optimolly?
It is a lube.
 
Nuts are just as bad The threads only provide clamping force to the cone, even on Porsche aluminum wheels say no reduction of torque. The previous picture is from a TSB and did not specify any reduction of torque either so you loose that wager, lugs either bolts or nuts have a very wide torque range that they will still remain tight from a simple jack handle, cross wrench, hand tools and torque wrenches. Aluminum anti seize is an alternative for TA. Always use what the FSM or a TSB recommends in the areas they recommend it for unless there is a removal problem.

View attachment 149335
Very helpful information so thanks for posting. I use hollow-barrel titanium lug nuts on my Forgeline billet aluminum wheels with no lube. About 95% of my driving is freeway, and I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen wheels leave a vehicle, especially big rigs. Whenever I take it to Discount Tire for balance, etc., I instruct them not to use impact tools. If I don’t trust them, I make sure they don’t blow me off. As the saying goes. ‘it sucks being the same age as old people’. 🤷‍♂️
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Let's assume your owner's manual or your given spec is to:
- Clean & Dry. I like this advice.
- Torque to 80 lbf-ft.

If you torque a lubricated thread to the same specified dry torque of 80 lbf-ft, it will create a higher clamping force than intended. So you will need to reduce the torque to be exact. btw, I used to think the opposite but then I learned. lol
Facts are facts ...

Having said that, the higher clamping force could still be within the spec or acceptable limits and may not necessarily stretch the studs, bolts or threads ... but that's another story.

Follow your OM spec when it comes to tires and wheels.
I only ignore the OM engine oil recommendation and don't use the thin stuff. :)

I've heard truckers use anti-seize but I've never done either and no issues even with lots of rain here but no salt here.
 
Those are the latest update for those bolts, Saab also uses them. For those bolts Saab wants lube on the cone and threads for some reason. The one piece bolts prior to these were a nightmare if no lube was used, the ones with a separate cone allowed the bolt to turn without trying to turn the cone so it helped to push the cone off the wheel. It is one of the old style that really jammed me up good last year, I was to the point after hitting it with an air hammer and 3/4 impact with a 1/2 reducer because the 17mm 3/4 drive would not fit in the hole, I broke a USA Proto impact and reducer and used a long pipe and still didn't budge, A power socket finally got it, that was a $70 hail mary before cutting it off and blowing the wheel away. I bought all new revised bolts like yours after that fiasco.
My guess is the depth of the cone, wheel material and wheel coating play a role in manufacturers recommendations.


It is a lube.
Volvo wants about $20/bolt. Crazy.

But, should you (or anyone reading this, I know Volvo nuts are out there) need Volvo wheel bolts, you can get a “refresh kit” - which consists of 20 new bolts and four new center caps for about $150.

$150 on FCP Euro.


You can see the condition of the old bolts, while the heads are trashed with rust, the threads were OK, so I wasn’t worried about strength, but with all the corrosion on the cones, I was worried about both torque accuracy and chewing up the seats in the new wheels going on the car.
 
I use hi-temp anti-seize on the mating surfaces between the wheel and hub but nothing on the lug nuts. However, some anti-seize always seems to make its way to the lug nut threads. I always do this to ease wheel removal whenever rotating tires or switching tires/wheels between seasons as they tend to stick. Nice weather so task completed yesterday, along with a brake fluid flush and bleed!
 
I think if they were rusty like a boat trailer I might use some anti-seize but try to wipe off as much as I could after covering the threads with anti-seize.

But on my F250 or Crosstrek where the wheels come off once or twice a year nothing is needed.
 
I never lubricate, grease, or anti-seize lug nuts. If you torque them to the proper torque, they won't be that hard to come off. Usually when a lug nut is difficult to break free, it's because someone went about 10 too many ugga duggas with a 1/2" impact.
I do on my boat trailer. That way it keeps the studs from rusting 4 years later when I'm in the side of the road changing a flat. You're supposed to reduce torque a tad with lubricated threads, so I just go on the lower end of the torque range specified. Not sure why they give a torque range on boat trailers instead if just a number but oh well.
 
Your main issue was in using motor oil and not a proper anti-seize. Motor oil is very slippery and and a bolt lubricated with oil requires only around 50% of the specified torque to achieve the proper clamp load. Anti-seize usually requires reducing torque only by around 15-25%.

I always use anti-seize on wheel lug nuts and torque them to 20% less than the specified torque. On rusty lugs, I'll torque them closer to spec, because they will need more torque to achieve the proper clamping force than lugs that have new threads.
 
Been using a light touch of anti-seize on wheel nuts and bolts for 40+ years...torque to spec, or the lowest number if the spec has a range, never had a problem and never had trouble removing a wheel. Most of what I play with though recommend some type of thread lubricant.
 
Those are the latest update for those bolts, Saab also uses them. For those bolts Saab wants lube on the cone and threads for some reason. The one piece bolts prior to these were a nightmare if no lube was used, the ones with a separate cone allowed the bolt to turn without trying to turn the cone so it helped to push the cone off the wheel. It is one of the old style that really jammed me up good last year, I was to the point after hitting it with an air hammer and 3/4 impact with a 1/2 reducer because the 17mm 3/4 drive would not fit in the hole, I broke a USA Proto impact and reducer and used a long pipe and still didn't budge, A power socket finally got it, that was a $70 hail mary before cutting it off and blowing the wheel away. I bought all new revised bolts like yours after that fiasco.
My guess is the depth of the cone, wheel material and wheel coating play a role in manufacturers recommendations.


It is a lube.

I used to have a horrible time on my e30 bmw with its lug bolts. I’d have to stand on a pipe extension on a 24” breaker bar to loosen the bolts. A little lube helped enormously. The bolts are pretty strong. If you’re careful, a little extra torque is acceptable it seems…
 
Your main issue was in using motor oil and not a proper anti-seize. Motor oil is very slippery and and a bolt lubricated with oil requires only around 50% of the specified torque to achieve the proper clamp load. Anti-seize usually requires reducing torque only by around 15-25%.

I always use anti-seize on wheel lug nuts and torque them to 20% less than the specified torque. On rusty lugs, I'll torque them closer to spec, because they will need more torque to achieve the proper clamping force than lugs that have new threads.
Permatex says use "normal" torque on the can of my silver AZ and website (last time I checked)
 
I’ve got Titanium wheel bolts on both Mercedes. (Mercedes OEM bolts start to rust fairly quickly where we live, while the Titanium is inherently corrosion resistant.).

The titanium can gall against the steel hub threads, particularly if they’re spun with an impact. I did have some galling on the S600 a few years ago, and had to clean up the hubs with a tap and the bolts with a thread file.

For that reason, prevention of galling, the titanium bolts on those two cars have a bit of nickel antiseize on them. Titanium has a different modulus than steel, it’s actually a bit lower, so I’m not certain if the clamping pressure for titanium is the same as steel at the same torque, and I just torque the bolts to the original spec without adjustment for the antiseize.
 
Anti seize on all my studs and on centric based aluminum wheels at the hub center. Just threads, none on the ''coined'' area as the coined or cone of the lug nut area is the friction area that acts like a lock washer. Normal spec torque.
 
If the manufacturer of the vehicle specifies in the workshop manual to lubricate the bolts or studs then the torque setting provided by them is for this lubricated state. As such it will not have a torque setting or adjusted setting for dry bolts or studs as they do not want them fitted in this way.

In the same manner if they say to fit the bolts/ nuts dry then the torque setting is for this state as well.

I’ve worked on commercial vehicles where it was standard practice to use a finger pumped oil can with engine oil in to lubricate the threads before fitting the nuts as tight as you could get them with a inch drive 3-4 foot long breaker bar. Never had a wheel come off due to self loosening or one I could not remove afterwards.

I’ve had plenty of wheel nuts and bolt be a total nightmare to remove that we’re not lubricated in some manner. Locking wheel bolts being the worst offenders.
 
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