Lug Nuts Seizing Up

[George7941]

This seizing up started a couple of years ago. Twice a year the wheels get removed for the summer/winter tire switch. This seizing was not happening during the previous fourteen years of I switching the wheels on this truck, nor did it happen with my previous vehicles. Coincidentally it started at the same time I started using an air impact for initial tightening of the nuts, prior to the final hand tightening with a torque wrench. I overtorqued some of the nuts at this time because some of them did not turn further with the torque wrench. They were not grossly overtightened and the nuts still turned on the studs without binding afterwards. This is the Aircat gun I used

https://www.amazon.ca/AIRCAT-1056-XL-Kevlar-Composite-Compact/dp/B01FUZAGCQ/ref=asc_df_B01FUZAGCQ/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292953024923&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15205678426532328136&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000976&hvtargid=pla-433814178182&psc=1

Happens with both genuine GM alloy rims (summer tires) and the OE steel rims (winter tires). Lug nuts are GM OE. Threads are clean and I do not apply any lubricant except for a small drop of oil on the cone face of the nut where it mates with the rim. I initally tighten the lug nuts to about 80 ft lbs, lower the truck to the ground and then use a torque wrench and tighten the lug nuts diagonally to the GM recommended 140 ft lbs. There is no binding when running the nuts on to the studs, indicating no distortion of the threads on the nuts and studs. Very little rust on the nuts and studs.

Wheel is stud piloted. Studs are 14 x 1.5 mm. It is like there is some micro welding happening because after applying about 300 ft lbs to break the nuts loose, it gives way suddenly and then comes off easily. It is not the case where you spin the nut loose a tiny bit and then the torque required drops to 250 ft lbs and so on. There is no progressive drop in torque as the nut is loosened.

The aluminium cheater pipe in the photo is four feet long, that is what it took the break the nuts loose.

 

[Rand]

From your story it sounds like you possibly damaged the threads on the studs with the impact.

 

[Chris142]

You stretched the threads. Use a torque stick with your impact. Then finish by hand with the tq wrench.

 

[Rand]

I have a set of torque sticks here I havent used in 5 years.
my dewalt dcf899 reliably tightens to 50-60ft/lb on low.
or about 1-2 second after contact on setting 2 from the m12 fuel stubby.

Torque wrench always moves so must be doing something right.

Back when I had the 1 "power" setting impact I would use the 100ft-lb torque stick and it was close to 70ft-lb repeatable.

 

[supton]

How hard is it to replace the studs? and how much to replace stud and lugnut? I'm wondering if it's just a case of, replace all of them, if it's not a lot of work & cost. Even if it's a bit of both, you'll no longer have to deal with it, which may make it worthwhile.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I use just a tiny wisp of antisieze, 80# torque stick (easy does it) and finish with torque wrench. If lug does not spin on easily it goes in the trash.

 

[Trav]

Do not have fear of never seize, this is a common issue with some cars. If running the lugs up with an impact use the lowest setting and run them down not tighten then tighten with a TW.

lug nuts corroded between nut and wheel (‘17 Tacoma)

17 Tacoma sat garaged for a year, so probably 14 months since wheels last came off… significant white crusty corrosion, mainly where the lug nut passes Thru the alloy wheel. Washer was fair. “Cone” was fine. For many years I applied various amounts of anti-seize, but later learned this...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[atikovi]

The aluminium cheater pipe in the photo is four feet long, that is what it took the break the nuts loose.

That's nothing. Your nuts ain't really tight until you need a 4 foot breaker bar PLUS a 5 foot cheater pipe.

 

[George7941]

You stretched the threads. Use a torque stick with your impact. Then finish by hand with the tq wrench.

I may have stretched the threads by overtightening. I would like to know what is going on now, why does it take 300 ft lbs to loosen a nut tightened to 140 ft lbs.

Overtightening stretched the stud beyond its elastic limit and it is a bit longer than it used to be. But it still stretches when the nut is torqued down and it should behave liike a stud manufactured to the slightly longer length. It does not explain the seizure of the nut on the stud.

 

[Trav]

It binds on the cone face. I recently had one that takes 80 lbft and a 24" breaker bar with a 6 ft pipe would not move it, it broke a USA made impact socket. Thankfully a IR power socket on a air impact finally got it off.

 

[George7941]

How hard is it to replace the studs? and how much to replace stud and lugnut? I'm wondering if it's just a case of, replace all of them, if it's not a lot of work & cost. Even if it's a bit of both, you'll no longer have to deal with it, which may make it worthwhile.

That is probably what I will do next spring, come tire changeover time. I will replace the studs and nuts on one wheel and see how it goes.

 

[George7941]

It binds on the cone face. I recently had one that takes 80 lbft and a 24" breaker bar with a 6 ft pipe would not move it, it broke a USA made impact socket. Thankfully a IR power socket on a air impact finally got it off.

It begs the question, why does it bind on the cone face? It certainly feels like that with the sudden release of the nut when torque is applied to it.

 

[supton]

That's nothing. Your nuts ain't really tight until you need a 4 foot breaker bar PLUS a 5 foot cheater pipe.

View attachment 130910

Not sure what happened but when I went to do a tire changeover the other day, I had to resort to this. Start to worry about how much it'll hurt if it's not the lug that breaks first.

Usually the shop does good work, I guess not this time. Glad I was home and not on the side of the road with a flat.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Sounds like good old corrosion - rusting to me.

 

[willbur]

This seizing up started a couple of years ago. Twice a year the wheels get removed for the summer/winter tire switch. This seizing was not happening during the previous fourteen years of I switching the wheels on this truck, nor did it happen with my previous vehicles. Coincidentally it started at the same time I started using an air impact for initial tightening of the nuts, prior to the final hand tightening with a torque wrench. I overtorqued some of the nuts at this time because some of them did not turn further with the torque wrench. They were not grossly overtightened and the nuts still turned on the studs without binding afterwards. This is the Aircat gun I used

https://www.amazon.ca/AIRCAT-1056-XL-Kevlar-Composite-Compact/dp/B01FUZAGCQ/ref=asc_df_B01FUZAGCQ/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292953024923&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15205678426532328136&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000976&hvtargid=pla-433814178182&psc=1

Happens with both genuine GM alloy rims (summer tires) and the OE steel rims (winter tires). Lug nuts are GM OE. Threads are clean and I do not apply any lubricant except for a small drop of oil on the cone face of the nut where it mates with the rim. I initally tighten the lug nuts to about 80 ft lbs, lower the truck to the ground and then use a torque wrench and tighten the lug nuts diagonally to the GM recommended 140 ft lbs. There is no binding when running the nuts on to the studs, indicating no distortion of the threads on the nuts and studs. Very little rust on the nuts and studs.

Wheel is stud piloted. Studs are 14 x 1.5 mm. It is like there is some micro welding happening because after applying about 300 ft lbs to break the nuts loose, it gives way suddenly and then comes off easily. It is not the case where you spin the nut loose a tiny bit and then the torque required drops to 250 ft lbs and so on. There is no progressive drop in torque as the nut is loosened.

The aluminium cheater pipe in the photo is four feet long, that is what it took the break the nuts loose.

I use AZ on the threads per my owners manual instructions. It specifically states not to apply any to the "cone" face. YMMV

 

[Trav]

It begs the question, why does it bind on the cone face? It certainly feels like that with the sudden release of the nut when torque is applied to it.

It depends on the lug nut/bolt design, some have a shallow taper on the cone but some can be very deep, they are usually the problem ones, the cone acts as a wedge and binds. Think of a ball joint or tie rod, add corrosion in the mix and it can be almost impossible to remove.
I have no idea if you over tightened the lugs or not but using an impact is not good practice for anything but lightly running them down to save time. Generally if a new nut can be hand threaded the length of the stuf the stud is not stretched.

I use AZ on the threads per my owners manual instructions. It specifically states not to apply any to the "cone" face. YMMV

Some do some dont depending on the style of fastener go by the owners manual or FSM unless there is an issue like some Toyota trucks and a few others then use your own judgement. If you have to start using breaker bars with a pipe after properly torquing them you know something is not right.

 

[bullwinkle]

How do the cone faces of the lugs appear when removed? Any rust or white aluminum alloy corrosion? It could just mean a new set of lugs could fix it, dissimilar metals corroding together. The more I use alloy wheels in non-summer conditions, the less I like them.

 

[KrisZ]

The cone on the aluminum wheel may be out of round and binds this way. I would use antieseize on the threads and the cone face. Lower the torque to 100ft-lbs and see how it goes on by hand.
How does the nut go on by hand with the wheels removed. I would try that by hand, all the way in and see if you feel any binding. That should tell you if the threads are stretched or not.

 

[Blueshound]

That is probably what I will do next spring, come tire changeover time. I will replace the studs and nuts on one wheel and see how it goes.

This is the way to go.

 

[930.engineering]

Coincidentally it started at the same time I started using an air impact for initial tightening of the nuts

First reason.

Probably you stretched the studs.

Threads are clean and I do not apply any lubricant except for a small drop of oil on the cone face of the nut where it mates with the rim.

Second reason.

Bingo.

Why you shouldn't apply oil onto the cone? This reduces friction ONCE when tightening thus the same torque allows for a much higher tension. Half a year later? That oil is long gone and you feel the real tension and torque to break the nuts loose.

Just never do it. I'd bet GM recommends not to use a air gun withou limiter and not apply oil.
If you actually think you need it just apply some tiny bit of anti seize on the theads only.
.