LSJR Boutique vs OTS shootout

[Patman]

I found it contained very good information. Worthy of BITOG data!

I can’t wait to watch the whole video! I started watching at the beginning so I heard the shout out for BITOG but I didn’t have time to watch the rest of it. I will probably watch it tomorrow during the snow storm since I won’t be driving anywhere for a day or two

 

[Pablo]

He was talking about not needing Superchat donations.

Thanks

 

[mitsuman47]

IIRC, in this same video he says that most 5w30s shear down to 20 regardless and he suggests just moving to 5w20 because of its ability to resist shear more than a 5w30.

Touched on the wider the gap between both sides of the w (A)w(X) the more prone to shear.

Let’s not forget that fuel dilution, which is very common in today’s GDI engines, will negatively impact the viscosity of the oil as well. And, it will likely have a larger impact than shear.

As Glenda W mentioned above, headroom is the name of the game.

 

[GW.]

Let’s not forget that fuel dilution, which is very common in today’s GDI engines, will negatively impact the viscosity of the oil as well. And, it will likely have a larger impact than shear.

As Glenda W mentioned above, headroom is the name of the game.

Great point. Also as oil temperature rises viscosity goes down, oil pressure goes down etc.

 

[UGASpike]

Let’s not forget that fuel dilution, which is very common in today’s GDI engines, will negatively impact the viscosity of the oil as well. And, it will likely have a larger impact than shear.

As Glenda W mentioned above, headroom is the name of the game.

Was definitely questioning his recommendation for that. That comment is actually was sparked me into looking at HPL No VII.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

Not exactly. The argument isn't whether break-in occurs but whether this early material causes additional wear of the engine. The argument is that there are millions of automobiles on the road today which did not have a break-in service and engines aren't failing left and right.

No, literally there are regulars here who proclaim that break-in no longer exists due to modern manufacturing, which is false.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

IIRC, in this same video he says that most 5w30s shear down to 20 regardless and he suggests just moving to 5w20 because of its ability to resist shear more than a 5w30.

Touched on the wider the gap between both sides of the w (A)w(X) the more prone to shear.

Then how does 0W-30 ESP prove to be so shear resistant? The answer to these things is, “it all depends”.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I really don't like that he used Teost with these oils. It's well known here that Teost is falling out of favor and gives false high results with oils that have high amounts of moly-based additives. The Teost results scale pretty much linearly with the concentration of moly. However, the 3 oils that performed worst in Teost have no turbo deposit/coking issues in the real world. HPL is used in fleets of turbo engines going 15k mile intervals or longer for 200k+ miles in high heat climates with no turbo issues at all. I also don't like that he used total wear metals as a comparison when there's only a 1-2 ppm between a lot of them on individual metals. They're all within the margin of error of RDE and ICP. I consider all of those results to be the same within MoE. There's no comparison to be made there. Only running the engine for 2 hours isn't going to tell much either.

Exactly. I’ve run the Ravenol DXG, AMSOIL Signature Series, and HPL No VII in my 3.5 EcoBoost over the years, and Ravenol was by far the highest wear metals per K mi, and HPL was the lowest with Amsoil just a click behind (within MOE).

But both Amsoil and HPL finished the significantly longer OCI I ran without falling out of grade. DXG, which is proclaimed to be one of Ravenol’s highest-quality, highest tech oils, fell out of grade twice on mere 6k OCIs, and with <1% fuel. So it was pure mechanical shear, and a phenomena that wasn’t seen on Amsoil or HPL. So Ravenol can take their $25/qt oil and… keep it on their shelves!

 

[Tom NJ]

Ok. What did everyone think? I enjoyed it.

All bench data, each looking at a single isolated property under specific conditions. Trying to correlate this data to an oil’s real world performance in fired engines requires too many assumptions for my blood. While bench data can be a useful tool in choosing components for constructing an engine testing matrix, or where a single property comparison is a basis for a claim, the chemistry going on in an engine is far too complex to confirm overall oil performance from the bench. Which is why the industry doesn't.

I prefer testing in multiple fired engines operated under severe conditions with all non-oil variables tightly controlled, such as those required in API and ACEA specifications. Since oil companies do not publish such data, I’ll continue to rely on industry and OEM approvals based on qualified scientists having evaluated a full engine data set against established relevant specifications.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Then how does 0W-30 ESP prove to be so shear resistant? The answer to these things is, “it all depends”.

It's really hard

Exactly. I’ve run the Ravenol DXG, AMSOIL Signature Series, and HPL No VII in my 3.5 EcoBoost over the years, and Ravenol was by far the highest wear metals per K mi, and HPL was the lowest with Amsoil just a click behind (within MOE).

But both Amsoil and HPL finished the significantly longer OCI I ran without falling out of grade. DXG, which is proclaimed to be one of Ravenol’s highest-quality, highest tech oils, fell out of grade twice on mere 6k OCIs, and with <1% fuel. So it was pure mechanical shear, and a phenomena that wasn’t seen on Amsoil or HPL. So Ravenol can take their $25/qt oil and… keep it on their shelves!

Have you looked up the requirements for the "stay in grade" bench tests? I have and don't know if the oil is allowed to fluctuate through the test but must finish within the starting grade.

 

[GW.]

Then how does 0W-30 ESP prove to be so shear resistant? The answer to these things is, “it all depends”.

Exactly. Base oil quality.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Have you looked up the requirements for the "stay in grade" bench tests? I have and don't know if the oil is allowed to fluctuate through the test but must finish within the starting grade.

Hey, I’m not arguing with the test. All I know is that DXG was definitely a 20 grade in my 6k mile OCIs in the EcoBoost, and with no fuel to blame. There’s lab tests, and then there’s real-world results.

DXG presents as an amazing oil on paper, but it just doesn’t live up to the hype. In contrast, on the HPL No VII, it did thicken into a 40 grade, but it went 16.6k and could likely have exceeded 20k, since some members here have no issues running 0/5w40s in their 3.5s anyways. It’s just not worth it in my opinion, so I went HPL and never looked back.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Hey, I’m not arguing with the test. All I know is that DXG was definitely a 20 grade in my 6k mile OCIs in the EcoBoost, and with no fuel to blame. There’s lab tests, and then there’s real-world results.

DXG presents as an amazing oil on paper, but it just doesn’t live up to the hype. In contrast, on the HPL No VII, it did thicken into a 40 grade, but it went 16.6k and could likely have exceeded 20k, since some members here have no issues running 0/5w40s in their 3.5s anyways. It’s just not worth it in my opinion, so I went HPL and never looked back.

Sorry. My response has another error. I meant to say I HAVEN'T rather than I have. I just wanted you to know that I was just curious about the
requirements of the stay in grade rest rather than trying to challenge your comment.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Boy, Chip from Afton sure did weigh the TEOST results pretty heavily in his oil rankings despite all the poo-pooing of its relevance here. Pretty cool that he is going to run this same test again with Valvoline Restore and Protect, Castrol Edge, and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum API SQ.

 

[mojoe]

Ok. What did everyone think? I enjoyed it.

I thought it was great information and I really enjoyed it.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Boy, Chip from Afton sure did weigh the TEOST results pretty heavily in his oil rankings despite all the poo-pooing of its relevance here. Pretty cool that he is going to run this same test again with Valvoline Restore and Protect, Castrol Edge, and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum API SQ.

2 hours runtime isn’t really a great measure of an oil. Even the questionable FVP brand at Menards will likely show similar results at 2 hours.

Considering that there are many sources that show the “average” vehicle speed is somewhere between 30-35mph, I think to have any relevance at all one would have to run the engines at 2500rpm for ~170 hours, or nearly the equivalent of a 6k OCI. Data points diverge over time and mileage, so if all results are basically taken a “0” on the X axis, there’s zero chance for divergence.

 

[buster]

He talks about high amounts of certain types of moly lead to deposits. I believe he said it’s because of the sulfur content. “More additives can lead to more deposits.”

I wonder if high sulfur is a problem? I'm going to watch it now.

 

[buster]

Amsoil and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum were overall most impressive. HPL really excelled in a few tests, but I'm left with more questions now that he said high sulfur leads to deposits.

I'd expect much better from Red Line. Good components but maybe not formulated the best for daily drivers.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Who will be the first to ask about oil filter efficiency as they load up?

The reason has probably changed to a 3rd theory by now, lol.

 

[altaylar]

Exactly. Base oil quality.

I am sure I am oversimplifying things, but i think it is mostly about VII quality, and then some work hardening to balance the shear