"Long term" HPL users: feedback/thoughts/analysis
- Thread starter cammyfive79
- Start date
I have HPL 5w30 pcmo in the 4 vehicles I have that are currently running. The other 2 will use the same oil as well.
I use VRP in the wifes Honda and my moms cars.
Im not long term use yet all still on their first fill...with only the race car needing slight top off end of season.
I use VRP in the wifes Honda and my moms cars.
Im not long term use yet all still on their first fill...with only the race car needing slight top off end of season.
I just sent off a sample for UOA, 5w-30 in a 1.6T Hyundai, with 6800 miles on it.
TiGeo
$50 site donor 2024
It's a great way to go and I know folks who track their MK7 VWs that have them. It has some downsides as well for a street-driven car namely length of time to get it up to temp (can be manages better with a thermostat), additional complication to the system (leaks etc.), more challenging and messy drains (if you want to drain it and the lines), and install (some can be laborious).
There are two types...sandwich plate style that is easy to install but creates v. messy changes due to the filter setup. Also uses smaller filters to clear the hood. Some use a reusable metal-media filter that had lower filtering efficiency. Finally these maintain the factory heat exchanger. Easy to install is a plus. The other is the plate style that replaces the factory heat exchanger on the back side of the filter housing. These divorce the cooling system and oil which is the most efficient for low oil temps but will warm up the oil the slowest. These are more complicated to install.
The placement of the core is critical and can require some ducting to not have an adverse impact on intake air temps out of the charge cooler (intercooler) which somewhat negates the value of doing an oil cooler in the first place - being able to stay hammer down for longer.
I'm not there yet. Most of the track events I do are in spring/fall so cooler ambient temps which helps. If I can send it for 20 min without overheating the car on the factory system it's a hard justification to me as the primary reason to do it is being able to go longer. The ECU tune is part of the equation (lower boost and more timing advance is better for overall temps) as is air flow (hood vents). If you look at the MK7 TCR race cars they don't run an external oil cooler.
This is an excellent resource for VW MK7 cooling information that is tested...a buddy of mine:
Oil Cooler Testing and Diagnosing High IATs — Data Driven MQB
Phase 1: Add oil cooler. Phase 2: Phase 3: Go slower?
search.app
Oil Cooler Duct: Prototype Testing to Final Product — Data Driven MQB
Oil cooler duct design and prototyping process, plus final results on track
search.app
Oil Cooler Duct Final Testing and Conclusion — Data Driven MQB
So just how much faster can you go if you properly duct the oil cooler?
search.app
I use a water oil cooler on my car. Works really nice and dropped oil temp 50 degrees.It's a great way to go and I know folks who track their MK7 VWs that have them. It has some downsides as well for a street-driven car namely length of time to get it up to temp (can be manages better with a thermostat), additional complication to the system (leaks etc.), more challenging and messy drains (if you want to drain it and the lines), and install (some can be laborious).
There are two types...sandwich plate style that is easy to install but creates v. messy changes due to the filter setup. Also uses smaller filters to clear the hood. Some use a reusable metal-media filter that had lower filtering efficiency. Finally these maintain the factory heat exchanger. Easy to install is a plus. The other is the plate style that replaces the factory heat exchanger on the back side of the filter housing. These divorce the cooling system and oil which is the most efficient for low oil temps but will warm up the oil the slowest. These are more complicated to install.
The placement of the core is critical and can require some ducting to not have an adverse impact on intake air temps out of the charge cooler (intercooler) which somewhat negates the value of doing an oil cooler in the first place - being able to stay hammer down for longer.
I'm not there yet. Most of the track events I do are in spring/fall so cooler ambient temps which helps. If I can send it for 20 min without overheating the car on the factory system it's a hard justification to me as the primary reason to do it is being able to go longer. The ECU tune is part of the equation (lower boost and more timing advance is better for overall temps) as is air flow (hood vents). If you look at the MK7 TCR race cars they don't run an external oil cooler.
This is an excellent resource for VW MK7 cooling information that is tested...a buddy of mine:
Oil Cooler Testing and Diagnosing High IATs — Data Driven MQB
Phase 1: Add oil cooler. Phase 2: Phase 3: Go slower?
Oil Cooler Duct: Prototype Testing to Final Product — Data Driven MQB
Oil cooler duct design and prototyping process, plus final results on track
Oil Cooler Duct Final Testing and Conclusion — Data Driven MQB
So just how much faster can you go if you properly duct the oil cooler?
Plus the oil heats up faster.
Of course your cooling system has to be capable to handle the heat.
TiGeo
$50 site donor 2024
Mine already has one...the OEM setup is this way.
I got mine from a stock car team that retired the car. It's big.
TiGeo
$50 site donor 2024
Nice. The OEM VW one is small. Best on my platform to just add a traditional oil/air cooler like I mentioned above. If this ever turned into a track car that's what I'd do but I'm holding off as long as I can.
Not long term by any means, but I’ll be dumping the hpl when I get back from my latest business trip. I’ve got around 6k on my 21 Altima and it’s time. I know how this car sounds considering I spend lots of time running highway miles. I’m sure an oil analysis would say I’m good, but color and knowing how the engine sounds is my never fail me go to. I didn’t buy hpl to run it 50k, I just wanted the so called “best” for it. Schaeffers 9000 is on deck. I’m more worried about the pothole I smoked outside of Indy that may have fast tracked a cv replacement!
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
There are several HPLs. Which one have you run the past 6k?
TiGeo
$50 site donor 2024
So you've had bad oil color and oil-related engine sound in the past, not changed the oil per your usual metrics and kept it in and then had engine issues before to verify these metrics?
0w20 premium PCMO. The wifes new car has the premium plus in the same weight.
Never any engine issues. Just a personal thing.
TiGeo
$50 site donor 2024
Ok, so "it's my never fail me go to" is just personal/not based on anything more. It doesn't fail you b/c you've never actually done anything else. The HPL is good for 10K...it's an Altima...
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I started using M1 oils in 1978 at 10K OCIs in many different Ford engines.
You are dumping premium and premium plus at 6k?!?!
HPL solves 2 problems other off the shelf GF5/SN and or SN+ oils have not solved for me.
1. Carbon buildup in the ring lands or elsewhere in a Honda J35. It has liberated carbon no other oil did, and I see it in the filter when I cut the first one at 20K. 10K OCI /20K FCI. Needless to say I was surprised to see carbon in an engine that saw very regular changes with high quality oils.
2. Shearing - The VK 56 in my Titan shears oil viscosity like a puppy rips up the Sunday Times. Half way through the 7500 mile OCI I can see the viscosity change at idle after a hard load on the pressure gauge. Although not scientific I notice a pressure difference at the end of an OCI after a long hard pull between HPL and off the shelf offerings.
Is it worth it when I can simply go to a 40 - difficult to say.
1. Carbon buildup in the ring lands or elsewhere in a Honda J35. It has liberated carbon no other oil did, and I see it in the filter when I cut the first one at 20K. 10K OCI /20K FCI. Needless to say I was surprised to see carbon in an engine that saw very regular changes with high quality oils.
2. Shearing - The VK 56 in my Titan shears oil viscosity like a puppy rips up the Sunday Times. Half way through the 7500 mile OCI I can see the viscosity change at idle after a hard load on the pressure gauge. Although not scientific I notice a pressure difference at the end of an OCI after a long hard pull between HPL and off the shelf offerings.
Is it worth it when I can simply go to a 40 - difficult to say.
Is there any risk with the cleanup of carbon from rings that it could break off and hurt the valves?
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