LOL. "My engine feels more lively on 5/20 v 5/30"

[fdcg27]

Going up or down a grade can make a noticeable difference.
It isn't all in one's imagination.
Going up a grade will usually make the engine noticeably smoother and quieter, while going down a grade will make it rev more easily.
Most car people who have owned and used a given vehicle for some time are very sensitive to small changes.

 

[Fyrb4ll]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
The real issue is that a number here have brainwashed themselves into believing that using a 5-20 or 0-20 is a better, intellectually superior choice for every vehicle in every circumstance.

They believe they are so intellectually superior to the "unwashed masses" who dare to use a 5-30 or (heaven forbid!) a Neanderthalic 10-30. Therefore, by them using a 5-20 or 0-20, their vehicle WILL run better, faster, smoother, and get better MPG's, (whether it does or not.)

x-20. The official "Oil of the Gods". Oh my.


+1!!!!!! A very concise summary of BITOG.

 

[daemontrym]

In my experience in variable valve timing engines you can feel a difference between 1 more or less than what is spec. In my 04 colorado I tried running rotella 5w40, but the truck felt pretty sluggish until I went back to 5 or 10w30.

 

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
5w-20 calls for tighter tolerances --> higher production costs if your mfg equipment is not up to snuff.

Wait a minute you mean BMW, Mercedes are using shoddy out dated equipment. OMG i never thought of that.
They are saving money using old pre war junk machinery to generate more profit, nasty buggers.
How about the Toyota, Honda and Nissan engines sold in Europe that spec 5w30?
I guess they using old clapped out equipment that's not up to snuff to grind cranks just for the Euro market.



Yes. You are correct. Labor laws are pretty tough in europe and messing with production tolerances will mess with the incentives they earn. So it is not easy to just call for tighter tolerances.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
The real issue is that a number here have brainwashed themselves into believing that using a 5-20 or 0-20 is a better, intellectually superior choice for every vehicle in every circumstance.

They believe they are so intellectually superior to the "unwashed masses" who dare to use a 5-30 or (heaven forbid!) a Neanderthalic 10-30. Therefore, by them using a 5-20 or 0-20, their vehicle WILL run better, faster, smoother, and get better MPG's, (whether it does or not.)

x-20. The official "Oil of the Gods". Oh my.


You could actually view what you've posted from either perspective.
Some feel that they know better and therefore use grades thicker than what's recommended for their engines.
I've been guilty of this myself a few times, and see no real downside to going a grade heavier.
Doing so will make the engine apparently smoother and quieter, fuel economy will not suffer to the extent that you'll be able to measure it, and revs may build a little more slowly but also more smoothly.
The reality is that the engine will last longer than the vehicle it's installed in whether you use a twenty, thirty or forty grade.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: chiks
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
5w-20 calls for tighter tolerances --> higher production costs if your mfg equipment is not up to snuff.

Wait a minute you mean BMW, Mercedes are using shoddy out dated equipment. OMG i never thought of that.
They are saving money using old pre war junk machinery to generate more profit, nasty buggers.
How about the Toyota, Honda and Nissan engines sold in Europe that spec 5w30?
I guess they using old clapped out equipment that's not up to snuff to grind cranks just for the Euro market.



Yes. You are correct. Labor laws are pretty tough in europe and messing with production tolerances will mess with the incentives they earn. So it is not easy to just call for tighter tolerances.


Some folks apprently don't have a sarcasm meter calibrated for Trav.

 

[Trav]

I don't know what to say.
I have read some tripe in my day but this reaches a whole new unchartered level.

I have to edit this. I am almost in tears laughing,. Thanks!

 

[BISCUT]

Back in my day (about 1990) my I-Roc Z always FELTfaster with a new oil change running n gunnin on those cool 55F New England early October nights!!

Where did those women go!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: chiks
The answer is quite simple. The engine was designed with the tolerances for a 20w. Using a 30w is going to cause a drag.

The ability to run 20wt has nothing to do with tolerances.

The way I read your posts leads me to believe that you're confusing tolerances with clearances, neither of which specifically determine a vehicles ability to run 20wts in all climates. It has to do with maintaining acceptable oil temperature, which is accomplished through design of the entire package (fuel delivery, cooling, etc).

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: chiks
The answer is quite simple. The engine was designed with the tolerances for a 20w. Using a 30w is going to cause a drag.

The ability to run 20wt has nothing to do with tolerances.

The way I read your posts leads me to believe that you're confusing tolerances with clearances, neither of which specifically determine a vehicles ability to run 20wts in all climates. It has to do with maintaining acceptable oil temperature, which is accomplished through design of the entire package (fuel delivery, cooling, etc).

That pretty well sums it up.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: kmrcstintn
when did Chrysler re-spec the 3.7L V6 for 5w-30 again? mine's a 2011...did they do this for the 2012's? or are you talking about the new version being redesigned for 2013 and beyond (which I'm guessing will get the Pentastar 3.6L v-6 engine)?


It was assumed the 3.6 Pentastar would be spec'd for 5w20 since Chrysler seemed to be moving in that direction with their existing engines. But, surprise, when it was introduced in 2011 it was spec'd for 5w30. There are several possibilities why, all of which are conjecture, but it could be that since the Pentastar and the new Mercedes M276 engine are basically the same powerplant, Mercedes never intended this engine to run on 5w20.

 

[mechtech2]

It depends on the car and the person.
Small engines with sensitive people who know their car have no problem detecting a difference.
I did not say it was great, and under all conditions, but for sure - a difference that is perceptible .

 

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: chiks
The answer is quite simple. The engine was designed with the tolerances for a 20w. Using a 30w is going to cause a drag.

The ability to run 20wt has nothing to do with tolerances.

The way I read your posts leads me to believe that you're confusing tolerances with clearances, neither of which specifically determine a vehicles ability to run 20wts in all climates. It has to do with maintaining acceptable oil temperature, which is accomplished through design of the entire package (fuel delivery, cooling, etc).

A design clearance with wide tolerances will result in????

anyways, for sustained high speeds, due to high engine temps/loads, a 30 grade or 40 grade is ok as the oil gets thinner due to the high temp.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: chiks
. A design clearance with wide tolerances will result in????

anyways, for sustained high speeds, due to high engine temps/loads, a 30 grade or 40 grade is ok as the oil gets thinner due to the high temp.


Someone needs to do some reading.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: kmrcstintn
when did Chrysler re-spec the 3.7L V6 for 5w-30 again? mine's a 2011...did they do this for the 2012's? or are you talking about the new version being redesigned for 2013 and beyond (which I'm guessing will get the Pentastar 3.6L v-6 engine)?


It was assumed the 3.6 Pentastar would be spec'd for 5w20 since Chrysler seemed to be moving in that direction with their existing engines. But, surprise, when it was introduced in 2011 it was spec'd for 5w30. There are several possibilities why, all of which are conjecture, but it could be that since the Pentastar and the new Mercedes M276 engine are basically the same powerplant, Mercedes never intended this engine to run on 5w20.

I thought about that too since I'm very interested in buying a Wrangler equipped with that engine. Due to the ticking head issues I decided to hold off a bit longer. But that's OT and another story.

Anyway I wondered too why they spec'd 5W30, here's my twist. I honestly believe that they're more confident in a 30 grade oil than a 20 grade in new applications, because they didn't spend the time and money to fully test a 20 grade in that application, and didn't want to gamble and take the risk.

BTW I am/was a big supporter of the thinner grade oils. But lets face it, why did Chrysler pick a 30 grade for this application? It isn't DI and it doesn't have a turbo.

 

[KrisZ]

Gee, nother thread about nothing. Oh well, at least the entertainment value is there.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Anyway I wondered too why they spec'd 5W30, here's my twist. I honestly believe that they're more confident in a 30 grade oil than a 20 grade in new applications...


I think that pretty much sums up Mercedes's view on Xw20 oils. Since the Pentastar engine started life as a joint development between Mercedes and Chrysler engineers, it's easy to see why neither the Pentastar or the M276 are spec'd for 5w20.

 

[kmrcstintn]

Quote:
Gee, nother thread about nothing. Oh well, at least the entertainment value is there.


I wouldn't say so...I have some info about a change in oil service application that MIGHT affect my vehicle if that change is retroactively applicable to 2011 Jeep Liberty's with 3.7L V6 powerplant; now I have to research and confirm this (and have something in writing on-hand) before I stockpile anymore oil for my Jeep and change from 5w-20 to 5w-30

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Just for kicks... even though I've been 5w-20ing for 4 years now, since I have a few cases of 5w-30, I'll throw some in next OCI just to see if there is anything other than superstition to all of this.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Anyway I wondered too why they spec'd 5W30, here's my twist. I honestly believe that they're more confident in a 30 grade oil than a 20 grade in new applications...


I think that pretty much sums up Mercedes's view on Xw20 oils. Since the Pentastar engine started life as a joint development between Mercedes and Chrysler engineers, it's easy to see why neither the Pentastar or the M276 are spec'd for 5w20.


That could very well be the reason. I was thinking they didn't want to risk the 20 grade in a new engine design, and weren't worried about CAFE. Maybe they felt a 30 grade was a safer bet.

I bet only the engineers know for sure.