LiquiMoly

It all certainly got better as soon as this Gulf Oil webshop began selling some oil. I remember times when the club turned towards Gulf Oil but strictly revolved around devotionals only as all oil seemed to be with the majors or so...

Yeah.. the whole forum raved about the gulf racing oil, the best oil on earth according to the forum. Some people bought it in big quantities just to learn at the next VOA that the company changed the formula completly to a under-average oil. Gulf is just a brand, not a oil company anymore, how sell licenses to put the gulf sticker on products to every company that pay and dont care about the quality. People at the Forum there just dont get it... until they found out the hard way.

The story with the racing-spark plugs and the damaged engine is aslo noteworthy. Why use some Stupid NGK / Bosch / Denso spark Plugs? These are made by big companys, they must be crap. Made in Eastern Europe racing spark plugs, intended only for Racing use according to the Homepage of the manufacturerer and the sticker on the box are so much better.
Whoops, a tiny little bit of the ceramic get lose and damaged the piston of my car...
 
Does Liquid Moly offer any "must have" products that no one else offers, or anything that otherwise can't be obtained somewhere else? Is there any compelling reason why the price premium is worth buying their products?
Jackalope tears in their new friction modifier, Jack-a-tec.
 
Jackalope tears in their new friction modifier, Jack-a-tec.

MoS2 doesn't work, that's for sure. They, however, will sell it for as long as someone is willing to buy it.
 
Their additives work as advertised, and I've never had any problems with them; whether it's their ester-based Motor Oil Saver or their Catalytic-System Cleaner. Their oils may be higher priced than their competition, and might not be anything special. However, having personally met members of their product development team, the one thing that really appeals to me is their transparency. If you email them, they will get back to you with the information you require. This, coupled with their CEO's dedication to his employees - especially at times like this, makes me happy to support them. Although I don't use their motor oil anymore, because the products I once used are no longer imported by the local distributor, I do use their additives quite often.
 
Their additives work as advertised, and I've never had any problems with them; whether it's their ester-based Motor Oil Saver or their Catalytic-System Cleaner. Their oils may be higher priced than their competition, and might not be anything special. However, having personally met members of their product development team, the one thing that really appeals to me is their transparency. If you email them, they will get back to you with the information you require. This, coupled with their CEO's dedication to his employees - especially at times like this, makes me happy to support them. Although I don't use their motor oil anymore, because the products I once used are no longer imported by the local distributor, I do use their additives quite often.
Same sentiment here. The customer service w/r to questions is top notch in my experience.
 
MoS2 doesn't work, that's for sure. They, however, will sell it for as long as someone is willing to buy it.
What ia your basis for that assertion? It's like $5 online...hardly a big outlay. Used it once with no issue but did it do anything? No idea...like most additives.
 
My plan is to alternate mos2 with Lubegaurd Biotech on oil changes to boost moly in the oil to hopefully help keep any hemi valve train issues at Bay.

BioTech (or Heavy Duty Engine Protectant if you like saving money) is a superior product over MoS2 in every way, including cost. MoS2 will fall out of suspension and create a "sludge" of sorts on the bottom of the pan, and is quite literally the only thing in the can from LM. BioTech not only has a better form of moly, it also has phosphorus and boron, is ester-based, has a viscosity in the lower range of a 20-weight oil, and actually has some TBN so it's not just diluting the add pack of your base oil.

All that being said, any additive (or oil for that matter) will only at best delay an engineering or materials issue. It will never fix an inherently poor design. Best of luck though!
 
MoS2 doesn't work, that's for sure. They, however, will sell it for as long as someone is willing to buy it.

With all due respect, I recommend rephrasing that. (I tried to stay out of this discussion but will stick a toe into it now just on this point)

Speaking ONLY on the MoS2 and no other chemistry of the product...…….

It would be better to say that......

MoS2 works well for what it is and what it does and IF your specific application meets the requirements that MoS2 will improve, then you will see a benefit. If your application does not have the situation where an application of MoS2 will improve a situation or is too worn to be a benefit then you wont see a benefit.

That is true for many additives but MoS2 is a slightly unique animal.
 
What ia your basis for that assertion? It's like $5 online...hardly a big outlay. Used it once with no issue but did it do anything? No idea...like most additives.

BioTech (or Heavy Duty Engine Protectant if you like saving money) is a superior product over MoS2 in every way, including cost. MoS2 will fall out of suspension and create a "sludge" of sorts on the bottom of the pan, and is quite literally the only thing in the can from LM. BioTech not only has a better form of moly, it also has phosphorus and boron, is ester-based, has a viscosity in the lower range of a 20-weight oil, and actually has some TBN so it's not just diluting the add pack of your base oil.

All that being said, any additive (or oil for that matter) will only at best delay an engineering or materials issue. It will never fix an inherently poor design. Best of luck though!

MoDTC (a low volatility version of this is found in modern motor oils) and MoDTP (this is what I assume is in Lubegard Bio/Tech) start both working under heat and pressure and turn into MoS2 where they are needed so to speak. As far as I know, MoDTP activates at a higher temperature than MoDTC. I realize that this is a very simplistic explanation, however, I'm just a hobbyist. I'm sure that someone who is an expert on motor oil chemistry can correct me if I'm wrong.

With MoS2 you're gambling a lot, from clogging up oil passages to your oil filter, to it falling out of suspension, to damaging your oil pump. MoS2 is a solid compound suspended in a carrier base oil. I even question the polarity of it. It's like if you get lucky and gets to where it's needed and stays there, then it kind of works.

My plan is to alternate mos2 with Lubegaurd Biotech on oil changes to boost moly in the oil to hopefully help keep any hemi valve train issues at Bay.

They are nothing alike. You want to get the most mileage and good health out of your HEMI, stick to Lubegard Bio/Tech.

I am using Lubegard Bio/Tech in my 5.7 HEMI because it was built in 2015 for the 2016 model year, so it's one of those years where Crysler/FCA rolled the dice on their lifter quality. I'd rather not take any chances. I started running 0W-40 (look at my signature) and it quieted the motor somewhat. At 600 miles I added 15 oz. of Lubegard Bio/Tech to the 7 quarts of oil that were in there, however, there wasn't a huge difference. I decided to give it one more try by doing an oil change and starting fresh. I also upgraded the oil filter to a bigger one (same used on the 6.4 HEMI, Hellcat, and Viper). This time I added 22 oz. of Lubegard to 7 quarts of oil. I premixed the Lubegard with the oil before I poured it into the engine. When the engine is warm, with the hood open, I can hear the injectors and the exhaust over the rest of the motor. Of course, these observations are subjective. I will check it every few days with a stethoscope for the next week and do a UOA at 7500 miles to check where the wear metals and TBN are.

@JTK you will gain absolutely nothing by alternating the two, except maybe damaging something with MoS2. Think about it this way: if Mos2 was any good, Liqui Moly would use it in their own motor oils. Lubegard Bio/Tech is a fully formulated additive package in a carrier base oil. Of course, it's your vehicle, so you do what you want with it.

With all due respect, I recommend rephrasing that. (I tried to stay out of this discussion but will stick a toe into it now just on this point)

Speaking ONLY on the MoS2 and no other chemistry of the product...…….

It would be better to say that......

MoS2 works well for what it is and what it does and IF your specific application meets the requirements that MoS2 will improve, then you will see a benefit. If your application does not have the situation where an application of MoS2 will improve a situation or is too worn to be a benefit then you wont see a benefit.

That is true for many additives but MoS2 is a slightly unique animal.

From the Pennzoil Q&A:

22. Q: Have you ever investigated the effects of MoS2 (molybdenum disulphide) added to your new oils?

A: No Pennzoil does not add MoS2 (a solid) to our motor oils.

If molybdenum disulfide was good then every motor oil manufacturer would use it in their formulations, however, none do. I won't be so presumptuous to think that I know better than they do.

I may be using Lubegard Bio/Tech to beef up the additive package, however, if Red Line 5W-30 wasn't as expensive as it is, I probably would use that motor oil without any additives. Also, I wanted to give Lubegard a fair shot, and so far, it didn't disappoint.
 
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You can say the same w/r to their Ceratec additive - if it were so good they'd add it to their oils. They don't b/c they make bank selling a $20 can of extra stuff to add and give you the warm fuzzies with. No issue from me on it and I've used it - but saying it's not any good b/c they don't include it in the oil doens't take into account the business all oil companies are in - to make money. Also, they don't include it b/c it will create approval issues which, for LM, is one of their big selling points as a brand overall (I realize they do sell a few that don't have approvals/only recommended for - Molygen for example). The notion that it falls out of suspension (MoS2 or Ceratec) and creates issues b/c of the solids - I've never heard of an issue w/r to this and lots of VW folks at least (on the forums, FB pages, etc) use it. Someone here posted a pic of it in a car that sat for a long time is my understanding - not the typical scenario and again, do you really think that a company would take that risk selling a product that f'd up people's cars?
 
You can say the same w/r to their Ceratec additive - if it were so good they'd add it to their oils. They don't b/c they make bank selling a $20 can of extra stuff to add and give you the warm fuzzies with. No issue from me on it and I've used it - but saying it's not any good b/c they don't include it in the oil doens't take into account the business all oil companies are in - to make money. Also, they don't include it b/c it will create approval issues which, for LM, is one of their big selling points as a brand overall (I realize they do sell a few that don't have approvals/only recommended for - Molygen for example). The notion that it falls out of suspension (MoS2 or Ceratec) and creates issues b/c of the solids - I've never heard of an issue w/r to this and lots of VW folks at least (on the forums, FB pages, etc) use it. Someone here posted a pic of it in a car that sat for a long time is my understanding - not the typical scenario and again, do you really think that a company would take that risk selling a product that f'd up people's cars?

I can't comment on Ceratec because I have never used it and have very little interest in trying it. I wanted to give Lubegard Bio/Tech a fair chance based on the science behind it, however, considering that I am not big on additives, if it doesn't deliver then I will spend more money and switch to Red Line 5W-30 in my pickup truck.

I would also be hard-pressed to find any car manufacturer approving a motor oil that contains molybdenum disulfide, let alone the API, ILSAC, or ACEA.
 
From the Pennzoil Q&A:

If molybdenum disulfide was good then every motor oil manufacturer would use it in their formulations, however, none do. I won't be so presumptuous to think that I know better than they do.

Fair enough and I respect your view.

I don't make motor oil but do Lubrication Engineering so I will "clarify" their statement. (I chose that word carefully because they are not "wrong" in the sense of error but they are "misleading" in what it leaves the reader to believe)

This is somewhat of an abstract illustrative description for the average reader to easily relate to so a little technical accuracy is sacrificed but not much.

This is why they call it a high stress, high pressure lubricant.

You gotta follow the train for it to make sense.

MoS2 is a solid ( like a crystal platelet or shingle for a visual) and a very small one.

It is a lubricant in the sense that it changes a COF so by its structure its a "dry" lubricant ( albeit suspended in a chemical medium)

It changes the COF by surface reaction mainly within itself ( sliding against itself not unlike ice on ice when augmented with oil)

It bonds to the substrate by a dual action of chemical bonding then "working in". ( think similar to drywall mudding for a mental image) so it leaves a top coat.

"Mechanically" it fills in and smooths surface asperities locally and dips/voids over the run of flatness. ( think finishing concrete for a mental image)

It has limits and liabilities, which some of them are....

Its ability to fill in and smooth is limited by its own structure and compaction coefficient ( being hard and strong- there's a limit to how much it will compact before it breaks off)

It "can" be stronger than the substrate material which the lower stress movement can make it fatigue and flake off under loading then it wants to cut like a carbide impregnated tool. ( wants to chunk out)

It also may not be able to completely fill an asperity ( ceramics can be made much finer) or be able to make the "grade" whole again ( still have some humps and dips in the driveway after scraping)

So for a "motor oil" ( designed for an ICE)- MoS2 has a limited benefit coming out of the gate because in the true EHD regime where the film strength behaves like a true solid- it contributes nothing.

The remaining benefit is the boundary lubrication requirements in the cylinders, rings etc.

The level of that "benefit" will depend on the size and concentration of the MoS2 by volume versus the mechanical conditions it has to deal with in that specific engine ( surface finish, any clearances/tolerances, existing wear and everything else)

So, with the exact same formula and volume- you could put it in 10 different engines with 10 different driving patterns and result in 20 different benefit levels ranging from virtually none to significant.

People who blend engine oils know this so there is no secret here ( they taught me too) and that's why you see it mainly as a specialty additive rather than a standard ingredient because of the following.

A properly designed engine with a proper lubricant maintained properly will see little to no measurable benefit over the life (in general)

An engine subject to extremes in operation or has a degree of wear COULD ( depends on the extent) see significant benefit.

The biggest benefit of MoS2 is in gearing, grinding, extreme heavy loading ( slow RPM) and ways where its properties are fully exploited.

Hope that helps
 
The simple and cheap LM gear additive, made of MoS2, works wonder for notchy an grinding manual transmissions.

My Honda S2000, famous for its notchy gearbox, behaves almost like a ordinary VW Golf after adding one tube of the LM gear addtive to 2 quarts of gear oil. There is still a very fine, mechanical feel at the shift stick, you can feel the synchros working. But all the heavy grinding and notchiness is gone away. (y) Best bang for the buck, as you say.
 
The simple and cheap LM gear additive, made of MoS2, works wonder for notchy an grinding manual transmissions.

My Honda S2000, famous for its notchy gearbox, behaves almost like a ordinary VW Golf after adding one tube of the LM gear addtive to 2 quarts of gear oil. There is still a very fine, mechanical feel at the shift stick, you can feel the synchros working. But all the heavy grinding and notchiness is gone away. (y) Best bang for the buck, as you say.

I was just talking strictly about the motor oil additive. @ABN_CBT_ENGR provided a very good explanation of how MoS2 works, so good that I actually got interested in it for gear applications like differentials and a 13-speed truck transmission, all old that could use some help.

And how many instances has this happened?

It's mostly from reviews and accounts that I read online and my own conclusion based on how engine oil pumps work. Based on what @ABN_CBT_ENGR said, MoS2 seems much better suited for gearing applications, such as differentials and manual transmissions. That being said, if I had a junker with an engine that's on its last legs, I would probably try MoS2 - also based on what @ABN_CBT_ENGR said. I'm very careful with our current vehicles, so I don't want to experiment with anything on them that I'm not comfortable with. I hope this makes sense.
 
Here is a very scientific study on Liqui Moly MoS2. Let's see how well it performs 😅

 
Please, don't ever use "scientific" and project farm in the same sentence unless you are describing polar opposites

Obviously I was joking. When I saw how he's testing motor oil I was like... Anyway, plenty of naive people ran off and bought Amsoil and those who couldn't afford it went for number two, Pennzoil. According to this guy, the other motor oil manufacturers might as well quit. I especially like his "one-armed bandit" test and just love his "Sudo NOACK" and cold pour tests, all meaningless. I wonder if he will get upset if I made a video debunking his oil testing methodology, or maybe someone else for that matter. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't like it though.
 
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