Like I said.....only a matter of time for EV's to be cost competitive

[UncleDave]

EV's have a ton more copper, cobalt, Manganese and Nickel. There are very long supply chains for those in a quickly deglobalizing world.

Forget the infotainment and you can make a typical ICE with almost exclusively North American Sourced raw materials.

I just don't see there being enough of these resources for everyone to have an EV, nor enough electric grid either. I would like a small cheap EV for around town - the Bolt is getting close - but I won't be getting rid of any of my ICE vehicles either.

BEV isn't replacing my trucks but if I needed a sedan, or small/ mid sized non towing SUV they would.

Cobalt has by and large been engineered out.

The materials are pretty readily available.

As with other commodities the refining is the choke point at the moment.

The oil supply chain has more conflict than the mineral supply chain.

 

[billt460]

Cost is one thing. Convenience of five minute fill-ups of gasoline on every other corner is priceless.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

The problem isn't making them, "cost competitive". It's making them time and distance competitive. And in that department they've got a long way to go.

 

[billt460]

Wait till you experience starting every day with a full tank without going to the gas station!

I would be more concerned about starting a long distance trip in one. And getting there in a respectable time frame compared to ICE. Once again the range, and charging time factor continues to rear its ugly head. Not everyone can afford to be a 3 or 4 car family, and purchase one of these things as a novelty, or back up toy.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I would be more concerned about starting a long distance trip in one. And getting there in a respectable time frame compared to ICE. Once again the range, and charging time factor continues to rear its ugly head. Not everyone can afford to be a 3 or 4 car family, and purchase one of these things as a novelty, or back up toy.

Sure. I have said a million times EVs are not for everyone. Depends on your use case, and what you want.
But I can tell you, if you can charge at home, an EV fueling beats the snot outta gas stations by a mile.

I took a ride to Petaluma last Saturday, about 90 miles from our home in Los Gatos. My GS would have cost about $40 in gas, the Tundra over $50. And that's at Costco prices. I charged for 15 minutes in the Tesla for $10. And I didn't start with a full battery. Could have charged for half that and had plenty. Or I could have charged at our house in Petaluma. If I started with 100% charge and kept it down to 70 or less, I would not have needed to charge. But no one drives a Tesla 70...

Again, each of us have different needs and likes. As an owner of ICE and EVs, there is a lot of misconceptions about EV use. Yes, these cars are different. I am learning. I am planning on using the Tesla more. Gas is expensive around here.

 

[tmorris1]

Would you park that Chinese EV in your garage and trust that it wouldn't burst into flames in the middle of the night?

 

[terry274]

I would be more concerned about starting a long distance trip in one. And getting there in a respectable time frame compared to ICE. Once again the range, and charging time factor continues to rear its ugly head. Not everyone can afford to be a 3 or 4 car family, and purchase one of these things as a novelty, or back up toy.

I'm curious as to how many long distance trips you took in 2022? I'm not calling you out specifically, I just keep hearing this and I wonder where all you people are going such long distances all the time.

 

[DwightFrye]

You can be sure that priority #1 among the EV makers is extending the range and doing so without compromising the longevity of the battery. Even without the capricious actions of a group of government pinheads that think mandating EV adoption is the solution, the market vis-a-vis the cost of gas is doing a good job of convincing people that an EV is a good option for a lot of applications.

The average cost of a Tesla is not a barrier for a great deal of consumers. They certainly are spending a comparable amount on a lot of Camrys or other passenger vehicles. But the demand is there for a sub $30K urban commuter version and I have no doubt that it will be a big seller.

Yes, range anxiety is an issue. But as Mr. Keryk gives in his example charging at home is a viable technique and if one can go from 20% to 80% charge conditions in 15 minutes at a public charging station, that's not bad.

It won't be long before a 400 mile range is the norm and a 600 mile range will be available on the higher end models. And on those inexpensive commuter vehicles for people who only make a 20 or 30 mile round trip every day, a 200 mile range will be quite sufficient.

 

[JeffKeryk]

It won't be long before a 400 mile range is the norm and a 600 mile range will be available on the higher end models. And on those inexpensive commuter vehicles for people who only make a 20 or 30 mile round trip every day, a 200 mile range will be quite sufficient.

400, or 500 miles is doable now. Just need a bigger battery. The question is, do you really need it?
And I have to believe most owners probably do not.

EV vs ICE depends on use case, initial cost and mind set change. That's what I am learning, and I have owned the Model 3 since Dec 2018. Apparantly I am die hard knucklehead...

 

[Torrid]

Would you park that Chinese EV in your garage and trust that it wouldn't burst into flames in the middle of the night?

What Chinese EV are you referring to?

 

[Torrid]

400, or 500 miles is doable now. Just need a bigger battery. The question is, do you really need it?
And I have to believe most owners probably do not.

EV vs ICE depends on use case, initial cost and mind set change. That's what I am learning, and I have owned the Model 3 since Dec 2018. Apparantly I am die hard knucklehead...

That's definitely the thing. I could say I want more range to avoid the stop, but then I have a heavier vehicle with worse handling and it also makes it less efficient. For me 250 is fine and 300 is probably perfect. That gets me to not needing to charge round trip for all of my main runs if I start with 100% battery.

 

[tmorris1]

What Chinese EV are you referring to?

The one that started this thread

 

[Torrid]

The one that started this thread

While I would rather a locally built product in most cases I'm not sure the "it's Chinese, it's junk" means as much as it used to. I would expect a better experience though with something like Tesla or Volkswagen over a BYD for familiarity of how it's designed and I'm used to using them. I do not think the manufacturing of the battery packs is all that different and some of the products used to make them are likely the same parts from the same factories.

 

[billt460]

I'm curious as to how many long distance trips you took in 2022? I'm not calling you out specifically, I just keep hearing this and I wonder where all you people are going such long distances all the time.

The issue is why choose a vehicle that doesn't have the capability, when you can have one that does for the same money or less?

To pay well into 5 digits for a vehicle you can't go overland with, without a lot of additional time and fuss, seems like you're giving up a lot for nothing.

 

[Cujet]

Wait till you experience starting every day with a full tank without going to the gas station!

For some of us that drive F150’s with 36 gal tanks and 21mpg, it compares to more like starting the day with 1/3 of a tank of gas.

 

[tmorris1]

While I would rather a locally built product in most cases I'm not sure the "it's Chinese, it's junk" means as much as it used to. I would expect a better experience though with something like Tesla or Volkswagen over a BYD for familiarity of how it's designed and I'm used to using them. I do not think the manufacturing of the battery packs is all that different and some of the products used to make them are likely the same parts from the same factories.

Sure, but the original post is literally about a cheap Chinese EV. I would not trust Chinese engineering with my life.

 

[alarmguy]

The one that started this thread

That vehicle will never be sold in the USA. Never mind China, many cars even in the E/U arent sold here, we are used to and buy a higher standard of luxury because loans are so easy to get.
I dont think I would call it junk, it is a low cost vehicle very important to many parts of the world.
I mean, all an EV needs to be is a grown up version of my remote control battery powered Traxxas truck based on decades old technology.

 

[Torrid]

That vehicle will never be sold in the USA. Never mind China, many cars even in the E/U arent sold here, we are used to and buy a higher standard of luxury because loans are so easy to get.
I dont think I would call it junk, it is a low cost vehicle very important to many parts of the world.
I mean, all an EV needs to be is a grown up version of my remote control battery powered Traxxas truck based on decades old technology.

I mean if I can get one that can offroad like that, sign me up!

 

[AZjeff]

Good for you. Realistically how many cars have you kept past 15 years as a daily driver?

Calm down I was replying to 2 different people. The point of mentioning the jeep is guys who live in salted road states have a hard time believing all cars aren't junk by 10 years. I didn't get it until we moved from PA to AZ. Lots of EVs will live well past 10 years mechanically.

 

[CKN]

I'm curious as to how many long distance trips you took in 2022? I'm not calling you out specifically, I just keep hearing this and I wonder where all you people are going such long distances all the time.

These are informative articles-
https://electrek.co/2022/02/18/3-th...ipping-across-12-states-in-our-tesla-model-3/
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/04/1...ns-learned-from-a-cross-country-ev-road-trip/
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...ord-mustang-mach-e-reviews-owners/4636946001/
https://mashable.com/article/tesla-electric-vehicles-road-trips

 

[CKN]

Would you park that Chinese EV in your garage and trust that it wouldn't burst into flames in the middle of the night?

Some of these EV objections on this site are becoming nonsensical-this is one of them. But It's OK to park a vehicle with 20 or 30 gallons of gasoline in it. I could google all day long recalls about AMERICAN VEHCILES catching fire or potentially catching fire and being recalled for wiper motors, cruise control systems, etc, that could potentially burn you garage down.