JHZR2
Staff member
Thanks. Not trying to go it here, but my hypothesis is that CFLs typically fail due to the electric driver circuit failing. If that's the case, then I have little faith that LEDs will last much longer.
LED Bulb Review
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Thanks. Not trying to go it here, but my hypothesis is that CFLs typically fail due to the electric driver circuit failing. If that's the case, then I have little faith that LEDs will last much longer.
You probably missed this part:
Quote:
Electronic ballasts should be designed to shut down the tube when the emission mix runs out as described above. In the case of integral electronic ballasts, since they never have to work again, this is sometimes done by having them deliberately burn out some component to permanently cease operation.
But, you are right. The very cheap, no brand LEDs will fail due to power supply issues. I have purchased a total of 30-40 cheap LEDs on ebay (at prices ranging $0-$2). There is one batch that is brighter than average, but runs hotter and sure enough I have 1 of 10 failed already after short use and another one blinking sometimes. I pulled them out of service as I have plenty of spares.
Thanks. Not trying to go it here, but my hypothesis is that CFLs typically fail due to the electric driver circuit failing. If that's the case, then I have little faith that LEDs will last much longer.
You probably missed this part:
Quote:
Electronic ballasts should be designed to shut down the tube when the emission mix runs out as described above. In the case of integral electronic ballasts, since they never have to work again, this is sometimes done by having them deliberately burn out some component to permanently cease operation.
But, you are right. The very cheap, no brand LEDs will fail due to power supply issues. I have purchased a total of 30-40 cheap LEDs on ebay (at prices ranging $0-$2). There is one batch that is brighter than average, but runs hotter and sure enough I have 1 of 10 failed already after short use and another one blinking sometimes. I pulled them out of service as I have plenty of spares.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
There seem to be some vocal CFL haters on the Internet, but they've worked fine for me. I select the proper color temp and they generally work quite well. Failures for me are pretty rare.
'Cuz anything "green" is considered to be bad on here by the majority. I've been using CFLs since 1991. That bulb (75 W equivalent) cost 9.99 back then. It's the old style hoop (?) shape. It's still in use, but now in a seldom-used spare room. I've had exactly one failure, and that was when I dropped the bulb and it broke.
There seem to be some vocal CFL haters on the Internet, but they've worked fine for me. I select the proper color temp and they generally work quite well. Failures for me are pretty rare.
'Cuz anything "green" is considered to be bad on here by the majority. I've been using CFLs since 1991. That bulb (75 W equivalent) cost 9.99 back then. It's the old style hoop (?) shape. It's still in use, but now in a seldom-used spare room. I've had exactly one failure, and that was when I dropped the bulb and it broke.
the biggest contributor to CFL's failure are as follows:
(1)heat buildup on the circuit board. components such as lytic capacitors, or inferior quality mylar film capacitors, etc. hate heat and will break down eventually.
(2)improperly designed/poorly executed designs with insufficient operational headroom. These will typically fail due to transistor junction failures, powerline surge/spike, etc.
LED bulbs will last longer due to both (1) and (2) reasonings, but with the following exceptions:
(1) heat generation from LED is much less/lower to that of CFL. As a result: components on PCB board should last much longer
(2) this is still the case.
(3) LED's P-N junction will experience "runaway" if operates close to it's max. junction temperature. Insufficient heat dissipation (heat sink, etc.) and designer's push to maximise light output will lead to premature junction failure.
Q.
(1)heat buildup on the circuit board. components such as lytic capacitors, or inferior quality mylar film capacitors, etc. hate heat and will break down eventually.
(2)improperly designed/poorly executed designs with insufficient operational headroom. These will typically fail due to transistor junction failures, powerline surge/spike, etc.
LED bulbs will last longer due to both (1) and (2) reasonings, but with the following exceptions:
(1) heat generation from LED is much less/lower to that of CFL. As a result: components on PCB board should last much longer
(2) this is still the case.
(3) LED's P-N junction will experience "runaway" if operates close to it's max. junction temperature. Insufficient heat dissipation (heat sink, etc.) and designer's push to maximise light output will lead to premature junction failure.
Q.
The "dust" they put in cheap flourescents that lights up when electrified lacks the rare earth minerals found in the nice ones. As such, they put out worse light.
When a power authority or government pays a per-bulb subsidy, super-cheap bulbs get more advantage through this leverage. I literally could buy a 3-pack of nasty CFLs from walmart for 12 CENTS!
Then, regrettably from the point of view of promoting themselves, they suck the color saturation out of everything in my house. So the very poor, or very cheap, do not get to enjoy quality vision half the time.
When a power authority or government pays a per-bulb subsidy, super-cheap bulbs get more advantage through this leverage. I literally could buy a 3-pack of nasty CFLs from walmart for 12 CENTS!
Then, regrettably from the point of view of promoting themselves, they suck the color saturation out of everything in my house. So the very poor, or very cheap, do not get to enjoy quality vision half the time.
I've been switching to LEDs as my CFLS start dying out...which only a few have done so far. As I catch sales, I've started stocking up with a few 40 and 60 wattage ones. Though I do have to say the CFLs, even in high traffic areas, are holding up better than I thought. There is one place I might not wait, which would be the bathroom. I threw one in just to see, and I liked the difference....much sharper detail.
Been using Cree so far. Thanks Pop for the great write up....looking forward to the follow ups....
Been using Cree so far. Thanks Pop for the great write up....looking forward to the follow ups....
One LED I bought at Walmart (China) is now officially toast. In less than a month. It started flickering within a few days of purchase. Tried moving it around in various fixtures and nothing helped.
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Been using Cree so far. Thanks Pop for the great write up....looking forward to the follow ups....
Are Cree bulbs made in USA? thanks!
Been using Cree so far. Thanks Pop for the great write up....looking forward to the follow ups....
Are Cree bulbs made in USA? thanks!
Originally Posted By: Nayov
^ 10 cents a bulb at Walmart (Scarborough) for the 60 watt equivalent. Just sayin'
. They have great color rendition. However, they are advertised as instant on, but they are not. That is my only beef with those.
$0.1 for a CFL bulb? Get outta here! I haven't seen anything that cheap (except regular incandescent bulbs long time ago).
^ 10 cents a bulb at Walmart (Scarborough) for the 60 watt equivalent. Just sayin'
$0.1 for a CFL bulb? Get outta here! I haven't seen anything that cheap (except regular incandescent bulbs long time ago).
Originally Posted By: Nayov
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
There seem to be some vocal CFL haters on the Internet, but they've worked fine for me. I select the proper color temp and they generally work quite well. Failures for me are pretty rare.
'Cuz anything "green" is considered to be bad on here by the majority. I've been using CFLs since 1991. That bulb (75 W equivalent) cost 9.99 back then. It's the old style hoop (?) shape. It's still in use, but now in a seldom-used spare room. I've had exactly one failure, and that was when I dropped the bulb and it broke.
I actually still have 3 CLF from 90's. I paid something like $10-15 back then. Made in Germany and they still work (light duty).
However, I lost numerous modern Made in China CFLs due to them failing early, usually in bathrooms when turned on/off frequently. I had some broken glass too. I hate to deal with all that mercury contamination.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
There seem to be some vocal CFL haters on the Internet, but they've worked fine for me. I select the proper color temp and they generally work quite well. Failures for me are pretty rare.
'Cuz anything "green" is considered to be bad on here by the majority. I've been using CFLs since 1991. That bulb (75 W equivalent) cost 9.99 back then. It's the old style hoop (?) shape. It's still in use, but now in a seldom-used spare room. I've had exactly one failure, and that was when I dropped the bulb and it broke.
I actually still have 3 CLF from 90's. I paid something like $10-15 back then. Made in Germany and they still work (light duty).
However, I lost numerous modern Made in China CFLs due to them failing early, usually in bathrooms when turned on/off frequently. I had some broken glass too. I hate to deal with all that mercury contamination.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Nayov
^ 10 cents a bulb at Walmart (Scarborough) for the 60 watt equivalent. Just sayin'
. They have great color rendition. However, they are advertised as instant on, but they are not. That is my only beef with those.
$0.1 for a CFL bulb? Get outta here! I haven't seen anything that cheap (except regular incandescent bulbs long time ago).
Yes!
"What's a good price for a 60-watt-equivalent light bulb that uses 75 percent less electricity than a standard incandescent and can last 11 years?
How about a dime?
That's what Walmart supercenters are charging. The stores are featuring a 10-pack of General Electric compact fluorescent light bulbs for $1."
http://www.pressherald.com/news/choosing...d=1&start=1
Originally Posted By: Nayov
^ 10 cents a bulb at Walmart (Scarborough) for the 60 watt equivalent. Just sayin'
$0.1 for a CFL bulb? Get outta here! I haven't seen anything that cheap (except regular incandescent bulbs long time ago).
Yes!
"What's a good price for a 60-watt-equivalent light bulb that uses 75 percent less electricity than a standard incandescent and can last 11 years?
How about a dime?
That's what Walmart supercenters are charging. The stores are featuring a 10-pack of General Electric compact fluorescent light bulbs for $1."
http://www.pressherald.com/news/choosing...d=1&start=1
Update:
We switched out some of the Cree standard 60 watt bulbs for Cree TW series bulbs.
We have 3 bulbs over each mirror over each vanity in the master bath. I had no issue with the color, but my wife didn't like the color for applying makeup. I had used the Cree standard 60 watt bulbs and I tried various combinations of both soft white and bright white. The bulbs are on a dimmer switch and no amount of adjustment could get it so she's comfortable with the color and using it to get ready in the morning.
I relented and removed the Cree standard 60 watt bulbs and put in Cree TW series bulbs. Their claim is a higher color rendering index at the expense of a couple extra watts per bulb.
She likes the Cree TW series much better for getting ready in the morning-better even than the 60 watt GE Reveal globes that we originally replaced. And since it's important to her, I don't mind spending the extra money-it will just push the payback out a little further. I do notice a difference, but I don't have the same light needs as she does when I get ready in the morning so I'm fine either way. But the TW series makes her much happier.
I'll use the bulbs I removed somewhere else, although I'm not quite sure where yet. But so far I've been quite happy with all of the bulbs, there have been no failures, no flickering and no buzzing or noises at all.
Originally Posted By: Blaze
Are Cree bulbs made in USA? thanks!
As I understand it they are assembled in the USA, but some of the components are made overseas.
We switched out some of the Cree standard 60 watt bulbs for Cree TW series bulbs.
We have 3 bulbs over each mirror over each vanity in the master bath. I had no issue with the color, but my wife didn't like the color for applying makeup. I had used the Cree standard 60 watt bulbs and I tried various combinations of both soft white and bright white. The bulbs are on a dimmer switch and no amount of adjustment could get it so she's comfortable with the color and using it to get ready in the morning.
I relented and removed the Cree standard 60 watt bulbs and put in Cree TW series bulbs. Their claim is a higher color rendering index at the expense of a couple extra watts per bulb.
She likes the Cree TW series much better for getting ready in the morning-better even than the 60 watt GE Reveal globes that we originally replaced. And since it's important to her, I don't mind spending the extra money-it will just push the payback out a little further. I do notice a difference, but I don't have the same light needs as she does when I get ready in the morning so I'm fine either way. But the TW series makes her much happier.
I'll use the bulbs I removed somewhere else, although I'm not quite sure where yet. But so far I've been quite happy with all of the bulbs, there have been no failures, no flickering and no buzzing or noises at all.
Originally Posted By: Blaze
Are Cree bulbs made in USA? thanks!
As I understand it they are assembled in the USA, but some of the components are made overseas.
Originally Posted By: Nayov
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
$0.1 for a CFL bulb? Get outta here! I haven't seen anything that cheap (except regular incandescent bulbs long time ago).
Yes!
"What's a good price for a 60-watt-equivalent light bulb that uses 75 percent less electricity than a standard incandescent and can last 11 years?
How about a dime?
That's what Walmart supercenters are charging. The stores are featuring a 10-pack of General Electric compact fluorescent light bulbs for $1."
http://www.pressherald.com/news/choosing...d=1&start=1
Probably subsidized.
Quote:
Walmart clearly promotes CFLs over LEDs. It has other sweet deals on CFLs, promoted with tags that read: "Special pricing provided by Efficiency Maine." For example: A three-pack of 10-watt General Electric mini-spirals costs 75 cents. A four-pack of 14-watt Great Value soft-white spirals is 88 cents.
It's not clear how Walmart arrived at its 10-for-a-dollar CFL promotion. The Scarborough store manager declined to answer questions, and a corporate spokesman said the company doesn't discuss pricing and sales strategies.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
$0.1 for a CFL bulb? Get outta here! I haven't seen anything that cheap (except regular incandescent bulbs long time ago).
Yes!
"What's a good price for a 60-watt-equivalent light bulb that uses 75 percent less electricity than a standard incandescent and can last 11 years?
How about a dime?
That's what Walmart supercenters are charging. The stores are featuring a 10-pack of General Electric compact fluorescent light bulbs for $1."
http://www.pressherald.com/news/choosing...d=1&start=1
Probably subsidized.
Quote:
Walmart clearly promotes CFLs over LEDs. It has other sweet deals on CFLs, promoted with tags that read: "Special pricing provided by Efficiency Maine." For example: A three-pack of 10-watt General Electric mini-spirals costs 75 cents. A four-pack of 14-watt Great Value soft-white spirals is 88 cents.
It's not clear how Walmart arrived at its 10-for-a-dollar CFL promotion. The Scarborough store manager declined to answer questions, and a corporate spokesman said the company doesn't discuss pricing and sales strategies.
I'll have to read the begining of this thread later. Eventually I'd like to swap out the CFL's I have (mostly spot lights, or whatever beams they are in the ceiling) for LED's. Faster turn on. Plus I'm not crazy about the fragility & mercury. An LED bulb ought to be able to go into the same electronic recycling waste stream when its eventual demise comes along. I don't see the ability to recycle plastic, circuit boards and silicon going away any time soon. But glass and mercury? Seems like those will be more costly to properly deal with in later years.
Update:
We received our first post-LED installation electric bill yesterday, and compared to last year it was substantially lower, even though we've been colder than last year, and we have 35 days on this bill compared to 30 days last year. Using last years amount and extending it the extra 5 days I would have expected our bill to be just over $100, but the bill was only $81. The new LED bulbs were in use for 18 of the 35 days of the billing cycle.
A very rough estimate is that the bulbs saved us about $1.20/day during their use this billing cycle. Keep in mind that we're in the winter months and we operate lights much more than we will in summer. We've also had 2 gatherings at the house where many lights were on for a long time. We had two similar gatherings last year about this same time.
I don't expect to see that much of a savings over the summer months. But even if the savings average 90 cents/day year round, that's over $300/year in savings, and is on track for a 3 year payback which about what I had originally estimated.
Again, these are just rough numbers and I'll have a better handle on them after our next billing cycle when the LED bulbs will have been in for the full cycle. Our electric rates are about 8 cents/kWh.
So far I'm very happy with the bulbs themselves. There have been no failures, no buzzing, no flickering, etc. It's also nice knowing that when I turn on all the lights in a room they're using less electricity than one or two of the single incandescent bulbs.
We received our first post-LED installation electric bill yesterday, and compared to last year it was substantially lower, even though we've been colder than last year, and we have 35 days on this bill compared to 30 days last year. Using last years amount and extending it the extra 5 days I would have expected our bill to be just over $100, but the bill was only $81. The new LED bulbs were in use for 18 of the 35 days of the billing cycle.
A very rough estimate is that the bulbs saved us about $1.20/day during their use this billing cycle. Keep in mind that we're in the winter months and we operate lights much more than we will in summer. We've also had 2 gatherings at the house where many lights were on for a long time. We had two similar gatherings last year about this same time.
I don't expect to see that much of a savings over the summer months. But even if the savings average 90 cents/day year round, that's over $300/year in savings, and is on track for a 3 year payback which about what I had originally estimated.
Again, these are just rough numbers and I'll have a better handle on them after our next billing cycle when the LED bulbs will have been in for the full cycle. Our electric rates are about 8 cents/kWh.
So far I'm very happy with the bulbs themselves. There have been no failures, no buzzing, no flickering, etc. It's also nice knowing that when I turn on all the lights in a room they're using less electricity than one or two of the single incandescent bulbs.
That sounds like some good savings with the led's.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Our electric rates are about 8 cents/kWh.
Is that a fully burdened rate or just the actual electric commodity? Around here (and I thought most anywhere) there is a separate distribution charge, so it may need to be figured in too...
Our electric rates are about 8 cents/kWh.
Is that a fully burdened rate or just the actual electric commodity? Around here (and I thought most anywhere) there is a separate distribution charge, so it may need to be figured in too...
That's the complete rate. Multiply the number of kWh by the rate that that's the bill total minus a few dollars of taxes. It's printed right on the bill. For anything over 1000 kWh the rate drops to about 7.8 cents/kWh, ours didn't go over 1000 kWh's this bill. 951 kWh X 8 cents per = $76, plus taxes bring it to $81 and change. We're in an area that has well over half of our electricity generated by wind power and it has kept our rates low. Most of Iowa is less than 10 cents per kWh.
We've never something called a "distribution charge".
We've never something called a "distribution charge".
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