Korean Cars

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I find myself wondering how many people in this thread even know that Hyundai literally cant give a car away in Japan. For ten years they tried to sell cars in Japan...swimming upstream against cultural bias and a strong home team market share. Well in ten years, their total sales didn't even break 16,000 cars...so they have completely abandoned the passenger car market in Japan.


Ford, Chrysler, and GM cars been unsuccessful in Japan. There is a loyalty that binds Japanese consumers (and automobile distributors) to Japan's manufacturers. Exceptions are BMW and Mercedes-Benz because German products, dating back to the 1930s, are perceived as prestigious.

Loyalty is a very respected value of Japanese culture.

In addition the Japanese are quite racist, particularly to other Asians. The Koreans are held in particular contempt.



The failure of the US brands in Japan has nothing to do with loyalty. What prevents Japanese from buying American is that US cars are craap in comparison to the Japanese brands.

 

[kelpie]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I find myself wondering how many people in this thread even know that Hyundai literally cant give a car away in Japan. For ten years they tried to sell cars in Japan...swimming upstream against cultural bias and a strong home team market share. Well in ten years, their total sales didn't even break 16,000 cars...so they have completely abandoned the passenger car market in Japan.


Ford, Chrysler, and GM cars been unsuccessful in Japan. There is a loyalty that binds Japanese consumers (and automobile distributors) to Japan's manufacturers. Exceptions are BMW and Mercedes-Benz because German products, dating back to the 1930s, are perceived as prestigious.

Loyalty is a very respected value of Japanese culture.

In addition the Japanese are quite racist, particularly to other Asians. The Koreans are held in particular contempt.



The failure of the US brands in Japan has nothing to do with loyalty. What prevents Japanese from buying American is that US cars are craap in comparison to the Japanese brands.


If you say so...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I find myself wondering how many people in this thread even know that Hyundai literally cant give a car away in Japan. For ten years they tried to sell cars in Japan...swimming upstream against cultural bias and a strong home team market share. Well in ten years, their total sales didn't even break 16,000 cars...so they have completely abandoned the passenger car market in Japan.


Ford, Chrysler, and GM cars been unsuccessful in Japan. There is a loyalty that binds Japanese consumers (and automobile distributors) to Japan's manufacturers. Exceptions are BMW and Mercedes-Benz because German products, dating back to the 1930s, are perceived as prestigious.

Loyalty is a very respected value of Japanese culture.

In addition the Japanese are quite racist, particularly to other Asians. The Koreans are held in particular contempt.



The failure of the US brands in Japan has nothing to do with loyalty. What prevents Japanese from buying American is that US cars are craap in comparison to the Japanese brands.


Blanket statements like that are not only untrue, but they make you look silly to boot...

 

[urchin]

Originally Posted By: lovcom


The failure of the US brands in Japan has nothing to do with loyalty. What prevents Japanese from buying American is that US cars are craap in comparison to the Japanese brands.


This statement was true up to a a few years ago or so. Not true today.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D


Ford, Chrysler, and GM cars been unsuccessful in Japan. There is a loyalty that binds Japanese consumers (and automobile distributors) to Japan's manufacturers. Exceptions are BMW and Mercedes-Benz because German products, dating back to the 1930s, are perceived as prestigious.

Loyalty is a very respected value of Japanese culture.

In addition the Japanese are quite racist, particularly to other Asians. The Koreans are held in particular contempt.



The failure of the US brands in Japan has nothing to do with loyalty. What prevents Japanese from buying American is that US cars are craap in comparison to the Japanese brands.


Your complete lack of understanding of that culture and the auto industry in general is further revealed...lol...keep talking man.

Wilhelm is absolutely right, the cultural bias I hinted at in my post is very real...between the Japanese and the Koreans it's down right palpable. Although I would say there are other issues at play as well, like size of car/engine and laws written in such a way to favor the home team brands...the racial aspect cannot be ignored.

I just think it's an interesting auto industry fact that the fastest growing auto manufacturer in the world cant give a car away in Japan. I think that says quite a bit about the Japanese home market, in a lot of ways. Read into it what you will, but you are kidding yourself if you think "quality" is the biggest determining factor at play here.

 

[Nick R]

Part of the reason that American brands- or indeed any brand that isn't japanese won't sell there, is due to the massive tarriffs they place on imported cars.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS

... Read into it what you will, but you are kidding yourself if you think "quality" is the biggest determining factor at play here.


Maybe not quality itself, but the perception of quality.
Quote:
But the main difficulty, said one Japanese industry analyst quoted by U.S. trade weekly Automotive News, was that "Saturn didn't have any brand appeal. American brands are hard to sell in Japan because some people still have a low-quality image of them." After four tough years and only 4324 sales, Saturn gave up.


There's also the fact that the Japanese like small (and for some reason white) cars

There's that perception that Japan is full of high tech supercars and luxury sedans. But for many years, the best selling car in Japan was the Suzuki Wagon R,

The US just didn't sell anything like that. The Koreans might have, but the Japanese do not like the Koreans. The two countries are still arguing over ownership of a bunch of inhospitable rocks jutting up out of the Sea of Japan. If they are willing to argue over uninhabitable rocks,...

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: urchin
Originally Posted By: lovcom


The failure of the US brands in Japan has nothing to do with loyalty. What prevents Japanese from buying American is that US cars are craap in comparison to the Japanese brands.


This statement was true up to a a few years ago or so. Not true today.

It takes at least 5 years before the rteliability of a car shows up.

And what proof do they have now? During the '80s, GM said they corrected the wrongdoings of the '70s. Instead we were left with FWD cars built when they weren't ready. During the '90s GM said they said they corrected the wrongs of the 80s, but instead they made the worst gaskets of the time. During the '00s, GM said they cured the wrongs of the 90s, I still deal with a variety of failures such as bad wheel bearings, bad interior bits, bad ignition switches, and numerous other things.

So if many people believe GM cars aren't up to the challenge, it isn't a baseless idea.

Also, I think of the number of Chryslers that have dead automatic transmissions.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
...

Also, I think of the number of Chryslers that have dead automatic transmissions.


I don't recall the Mitsubishi KM 175-6-7 transmissions being any more reliable than a Chrysler A604

I also don't recall Chrysler trying to sell in Japan even in conjunction with Mitsubishi (ie: Diamond Star) I'm pretty certain that if any Eclipses or Talons made it to Japan at all, they weren't intended for that market. They were all Left Hand Drive.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: artificialist
...

Also, I think of the number of Chryslers that have dead automatic transmissions.


I don't recall the Mitsubishi KM 175-6-7 transmissions being any more reliable than a Chrysler A604

I also don't recall Chrysler trying to sell in Japan even in conjunction with Mitsubishi (ie: Diamond Star) I'm pretty certain that if any Eclipses or Talons made it to Japan at all, they weren't intended for that market. They were all Left Hand Drive.

The reason Talons and Eclipses weren't sold there was because they were related to the Lancer Evolution of the time.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS

... Read into it what you will, but you are kidding yourself if you think "quality" is the biggest determining factor at play here.


Maybe not quality itself, but the perception of quality.
Quote:
But the main difficulty, said one Japanese industry analyst quoted by U.S. trade weekly Automotive News, was that "Saturn didn't have any brand appeal. American brands are hard to sell in Japan because some people still have a low-quality image of them." After four tough years and only 4324 sales, Saturn gave up.


There's also the fact that the Japanese like small (and for some reason white) cars

There's that perception that Japan is full of high tech supercars and luxury sedans. But for many years, the best selling car in Japan was the Suzuki Wagon R,

The US just didn't sell anything like that. The Koreans might have, but the Japanese do not like the Koreans. The two countries are still arguing over ownership of a bunch of inhospitable rocks jutting up out of the Sea of Japan. If they are willing to argue over uninhabitable rocks,...

Spazdog...my comments you quoted were centered for the most part around Hyundai in Japan NOT the US brands. Like you say Hyundai did have the "right" size and volume vehicles...yet like you and I both know the social aspect of the Japanese/Korean relationship played a much bigger role than any quality issues ever did.

As for the American brands in Japan, agreed for the most part they just didnt build cars in the right size or class to ever be popular there....unless they cared to compete in the luxury class harder, which they really didnt, because Mercedes owns that market in Japan. Much like Buick has owned that market in China for years.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: artificialist
...

Also, I think of the number of Chryslers that have dead automatic transmissions.


I don't recall the Mitsubishi KM 175-6-7 transmissions being any more reliable than a Chrysler A604

I also don't recall Chrysler trying to sell in Japan even in conjunction with Mitsubishi (ie: Diamond Star) I'm pretty certain that if any Eclipses or Talons made it to Japan at all, they weren't intended for that market. They were all Left Hand Drive.

The reason Talons and Eclipses weren't sold there was because they were related to the Lancer Evolution of the time.


Related?

The Eclipse/Talon/Laser is based on the Galant chassis. Not the Mirage/Colt/Lancer chassis. The EvoI did use the Galant VR-4 powertrain so I guess you could say they were related but it's via the Galant. The Eclipse is closer related to the Dodge Avenger/Sebring coupe than the Lancer Evo.

 

[rjundi]

On the topic of American cars in Japan:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/01...mport-barriers/

I think if we sent our Chevy Cruze or Ford small cars a different story now.

We sent them [censored] (Cavaliers) compared to other offerings and not a great program.

VW, Audi, BMW and other European premium brands have had a very successful export program to Japan for decades.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Leave it to Niedermeyer to leave out the huge fact that the Japalier base model retailed for around 60% more than a comparable base Corolla.

 

[LS2JSTS]

A little history...in 1930 Ford and GM controlled 85% of the domestic market in Japan. In 1936 the Japanese Government initiated their Automobile Manufacturing Industry Act and by 1939 Ford and GM were forced out of their market.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: rjundi

I think if we sent our Chevy Cruze or Ford small cars a different story now.


Maybe.

There still is that problem of perceived quality.

I've done installations on 4 Cruzes now. 1 LS, 2 Ecos, and 1 LT. No question about it, build quality, is as good/better than anything from the Japanese marques. The car is light years ahead of the Cavalier and even the Cobalt. It's just better in every measureable capacity. No doubt in my mind that it is competitive. But how would the Japanese consumer perceive it?

There is a Corvette club in Japan. At least GM is selling something. Maybe just 20 a year, and they have to be modified for the Japanese market. They're still LHD but have small sidemarkers on the fenders and I think they have to modify the rear fenders. But they are selling cars there.

The Koreans could build a stylish, advanced, 275hp car that got 60mpg and the Japanese would not buy it.

 

[hinterlander]

Life is too short to:

A) Drive a Hyundai
B) Drive a Kia
c) Drink cheap beer

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: hinterlander
Life is too short to:

A) Drive a Hyundai
B) Drive a Kia
c) Drink cheap beer


I agree with C 100%, A/B a little less.

 

[Propflux01]

Life is too short to:

A) Read a troll post
B) Read another troll post
C) Drink cheap beer