Korean Cars

[mechanicx]

I'm not sure where all the criticsm of the Cavaliers interior is coming from

. It sounds like regurgitated automotive magazine claims but that doesn't make them accurate to begin. '95+ had a soft touch plastic and the dash was a solid one piece designed. I've seen them with over 180K hard miles and rattle free interiors. Now they did have the old style door hinges and the later models seemed to have the interior and fabrics cheapened up. But the interior, powertrain, and ride on a '95 Cavalier was better than even an '12 Corolla.

I don't agree that Civics and Corollas were way ahead of J-cars in the 90's and they certainly aren't now with the Cruze out. How many times do we have to hear about how Japanese cars are supposedly light-years better and that Korean cars have improved? Well American cars have improved too and were pretty good to begin with.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I'm not sure where all the criticsm of the Cavaliers interior is coming from

. It sounds like regurgitated automotive magazine claims but that doesn't make them accurate to begin. '95+ had a soft touch plastic and the dash was a solid one piece designed. I've seen them with over 180K hard miles and rattle free interiors. Now they did have the old style door hinges and the later models seemed to have the interior and fabrics cheapened up. But the interior, powertrain, and ride on a '95 Cavalier was better than even an '12 Corolla.

I don't agree that Civics and Corollas were way ahead of J-cars in the 90's and they certainly aren't now with the Cruze out. How many times do we have to hear about how Japanese cars are supposedly light-years better and that Korean cars have improved? Well American cars have improved too and were pretty good to begin with.


I've driven a bunch of Cavaliers. I bought Civics and Integras
If you drive an EJ1 or EJ8 Civic and a similar year Cavalier, few would say that the Cavalier was in the same league as the Civic. It had more torque. That's it. That's the only category. Interior, fit and finish, comfort, handling, NVH....all go to the Civic.

I gotta' admit, I did have a certain affinity for the 2nd gen 60°V6 Z24. Bit the later models just didn't have it for me. Not even the Quad4 Z24. It had more torque than my Integra GS-R. That's all. About the rpm that the Quad4 was signing off, the GS-R was in it's element. On the big cam lobes and short runners and pulling. Plus you get soft dash materials and Acura leather.

But the thing that really bothered me about the Cavalier was the seat. It seemed concave where it should be supporting your lower back. The Ford Escort ZX2 seemed like it was just the opposite. Like it was convex...especially the seat bottom. The Neon had decent seats. It's too bad they slathered the interior in polypropylene and didn't even try to texture it with anything that looked better than tupperware.

I didn't pay much attention to the Corollas. The ones I did drive were boring. Competent but boring. Appliance-like. Rolling street dishwasher.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I'm not sure where all the criticsm of the Cavaliers interior is coming from

. It sounds like regurgitated automotive magazine claims but that doesn't make them accurate to begin. '95+ had a soft touch plastic and the dash was a solid one piece designed. I've seen them with over 180K hard miles and rattle free interiors. Now they did have the old style door hinges and the later models seemed to have the interior and fabrics cheapened up. But the interior, powertrain, and ride on a '95 Cavalier was better than even an '12 Corolla.

I don't agree that Civics and Corollas were way ahead of J-cars in the 90's and they certainly aren't now with the Cruze out. How many times do we have to hear about how Japanese cars are supposedly light-years better and that Korean cars have improved? Well American cars have improved too and were pretty good to begin with.


True, American cars have greatly improved but I don't ever recall the quality of any Cavelier to be equal to that of any Civic or Corolla. I could be mistaken, but I've never seen one. The Corolla and Civic dominated for their quality and overall performance in the sub compact class.

 

[KrisZ]

You know what I find hilarious.

Here we have a thread talking about Korean cars and how they are equal or better than Japanese or Domestics, but all you see, is people talking about old Cavaliers, Civics and Corollas, not even a mention of older Hyundais.

That alone tells me that Korean cars are yet to prove themselves over the long run. All the media hype and praises how Hyundais are better are nothing but empty, unsubstantiated words.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You know what I find hilarious.

Here we have a thread talking about Korean cars and how they are equal or better than Japanese or Domestics, but all you see, is people talking about old Cavaliers, Civics and Corollas, not even a mention of older Hyundais.

That alone tells me that Korean cars are yet to prove themselves over the long run. All the media hype and praises how Hyundais are better are nothing but empty, unsubstantiated words.


I always find it amusing when the media praises the reliability of new models, too. I'd say wait 10-15 years, then figure that out, but no one cares by that point.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You know what I find hilarious.

Here we have a thread talking about Korean cars and how they are equal or better than Japanese or Domestics, but all you see, is people talking about old Cavaliers, Civics and Corollas, not even a mention of older Hyundais.

That alone tells me that Korean cars are yet to prove themselves over the long run. All the media hype and praises how Hyundais are better are nothing but empty, unsubstantiated words.


I was thinking the same thing. I was just defending against unfair critisicm of older Domestic models. The way I see it Japanese cars were/are hyped and now Korean cars are.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The way I see it Japanese cars were/are hyped and now Korean cars are.


No question about it

 

[javacontour]

Yet that's not unique to Japanese or Korean cars. The hype about the Focus and the Cruise has exactly the same value as the hype about the Japanese and Korean cars.

In other words, it's not the country of origin that makes the hype good or bad. It's hype. It will take 10-15 years to find out if the Cruise, Focus or Fiesta live up to their hype as well.

Don't do the job half way. If the hype for Japanese and Korean cars is worthless, the same is true for hype about "domestic" cars.

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You know what I find hilarious.

Here we have a thread talking about Korean cars and how they are equal or better than Japanese or Domestics, but all you see, is people talking about old Cavaliers, Civics and Corollas, not even a mention of older Hyundais.

That alone tells me that Korean cars are yet to prove themselves over the long run. All the media hype and praises how Hyundais are better are nothing but empty, unsubstantiated words.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You know what I find hilarious.

Here we have a thread talking about Korean cars and how they are equal or better than Japanese or Domestics, but all you see, is people talking about old Cavaliers, Civics and Corollas, not even a mention of older Hyundais.


No, that just means some people cannot stay on topic in a thread.. nothing more

 

[vssjim]

We work on American, [censored] and Korean cars and I will say yes the Korean cars are getting better. Most of them we deal with on the long term uses milage wise they still have a ways to go for equaling [censored] and US cars for life.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: grampi
The Cavalier and Corolla are at opposite ends of the spectrum; the Corolla is a well built car...the Cavalier was built for the sole purpose of allowing Chevy to meet their overall fleet EPA MPG requirement and nothing more...and it's obvious....


Pure nonsense.


You're obviously a pro-GMer. GM has never made a compact that is competitive with what the Japanese have, and probably never will be...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: grampi
You were lucky. Those things are junk....


Three pieces of what you so eloquently refer to above were used for many years here as basic transportation for TEENS! I doubt you have a clue, but it would seem that this type of driver is just a bit harder on their car than many.

All three sold for more than we paid and are still on the road today. A lot of cars would never have survived at all.


If they had been Japanese cars you'd probably still have them because you wouldn't want to sell them...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I'm not sure where all the criticsm of the Cavaliers interior is coming from

. It sounds like regurgitated automotive magazine claims but that doesn't make them accurate to begin. '95+ had a soft touch plastic and the dash was a solid one piece designed. I've seen them with over 180K hard miles and rattle free interiors. Now they did have the old style door hinges and the later models seemed to have the interior and fabrics cheapened up. But the interior, powertrain, and ride on a '95 Cavalier was better than even an '12 Corolla.

I don't agree that Civics and Corollas were way ahead of J-cars in the 90's and they certainly aren't now with the Cruze out. How many times do we have to hear about how Japanese cars are supposedly light-years better and that Korean cars have improved? Well American cars have improved too and were pretty good to begin with.


Depends on which segment you're talking about. If you're talking full sized cars, pickups, and SUVs, yes, the big 3 have built some darn vehicles in those segments. However, the Japanese have been way ahead of the big 3 with compacts and subcompacts for years. It's just been recently (with cars like the Cruze and the newly redesigned Focus) that the big 3 have been closing the gap in the smaller car segment...

This is also a correction to my previous post #2429666...I should've said they never have until recently...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You know what I find hilarious.

Here we have a thread talking about Korean cars and how they are equal or better than Japanese or Domestics, but all you see, is people talking about old Cavaliers, Civics and Corollas, not even a mention of older Hyundais.

That alone tells me that Korean cars are yet to prove themselves over the long run. All the media hype and praises how Hyundais are better are nothing but empty, unsubstantiated words.


I was thinking the same thing. I was just defending against unfair critisicm of older Domestic models. The way I see it Japanese cars were/are hyped and now Korean cars are.


You apparently don't know the difference between proven reliability records and hype...

 

[KrisZ]

Grampi, your posts about superiority of Japanese cars are very insightful, and are a perfect example of the hype mechanicx and I touched upon.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Grampi, your posts about superiority of Japanese cars are very insightful, and are a perfect example of the hype mechanicx and I touched upon.



Years worth of compiled reliability data isn't hype. Those are called facts....

 

[sw99]

2011 is the break through year for Hyundai/Kia. Mark my words! Probably the biggest year for improvement and technological advancements. Watch out Japan!

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Grampi, your posts about superiority of Japanese cars are very insightful, and are a perfect example of the hype mechanicx and I touched upon.



Years worth of compiled reliability data isn't hype. Those are called facts....


... and do you have any proven facts that show how Japanese cars are more reliable than American?

Remember, I never said Japanese don't make reliable cars, the hype I am talking about is the implication that they are more reliable.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Grampi, your posts about superiority of Japanese cars are very insightful, and are a perfect example of the hype mechanicx and I touched upon.



Years worth of compiled reliability data isn't hype. Those are called facts....


... and do you have any proven facts that show how Japanese cars are more reliable than American?

Remember, I never said Japanese don't make reliable cars, the hype I am talking about is the implication that they are more reliable.


There is all sorts of reliability data available on the internet. If you're interested in finding it, you can research it, the info's there. If you're asking if I can post a link that will magically make all that info appear, no I can't. I'm afraid you'll have to find it the same way I did, by searching for it. Of course if you're not interested in facts, then I suspect you'll do nothing and go on believing American cars are, and always have been as reliable as Japanese cars...

 

[subiedriver]

In the 2012 CR buyer's guide, GM has about 50 cars on the "worst of the worst" list, lmao. Subaru, they have......wait for it.....TWO!

In all honesty, if I were looking for a midsize car, I'd take a hard look at the Fusion, good car.