Kia optima sx 2.0 GDI turbo 5w-40

[69Torino]

Originally Posted By: timur38
Thanks 69Torino, so there are no advantages of using 5w-40 in 2.0 turbo engine?


Really only in hot climates will be an advantage with a 40 weight. You won't hurt anything but your fuel mileage. Anywhere that gets under 70 degrees F will be doing well to have a good synthetic Xw-30 synthetic, especially name brand with manufacturers approvals.

You can absolutely use 0 or 5w-30 in the 2.4 non-turbo engine, but never 0 or 5w-20 in a 2.0 T-GDI. Only 30 weight or better, and they seem to have good power and fuel mileage on 30 weight oils vs 40 weights. The variable valve timing reacts much quicker on thinner oils, which translates into better low end torque "feel", due to the quicker moving cam phasers. In my humble opinion, oil flow is vastly more important than oil pressure or using a higher viscosity to make you feel better inside. Faster oil flow is also good for bearing cooling, both in the main and rod bearings and the turbo bushings. These turbos have bronze bushings, not bearings. They LOVE oil flow. I have a failed turbo shaft/wheel assembly in my garage, I'll try to post a pic of it tonight. Bronze transferred to the shaft and it became very noisy and barely produced boost pressure.

 

[69Torino]

 

[69Torino]

Sorry for being so long winded on this subject, just have seen a lot happen in the Theta II engine program in the last 5 or so years. On the Hyundai/Kia 2.0 T-GDI engine, I sturdily suggest a high quality name brand 0 or 5W-30 synthetic oil such as Valvoline Synthetic, Pennzoil Platinum, Amsoil Signature Series, or Mobil 1 for best performance and durability.

 

[JustN89]

Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Sorry for being so long winded on this subject, just have seen a lot happen in the Theta II engine program in the last 5 or so years. On the Hyundai/Kia 2.0 T-GDI engine, I sturdily suggest a high quality name brand 0 or 5W-30 synthetic oil such as Valvoline Synthetic, Pennzoil Platinum, Amsoil Signature Series, or Mobil 1 for best performance and durability.

Thanks for the great info! It seems like the issues with Hyundai/Kia motors are largely confined to the Theta II/GDI engines, right? Do you have any insight on the Nu MPI engines and their reliability? I'm curious because that's the engine I have in my '17 Elantra.

 

[69Torino]

The NU engines have been crazy reliable. The only internal engine failures I've seen have been from gross neglect. In other words, 15-20k miles between oil changes with who knows what oil, running low on oil, etc. I did have one NU engine that jumped time (timing chain skipped teeth) but the customer admitted that the car rolled backwards in his driveway while parked in gear without the parking brake applied. This rotated the engine backwards and slacked the timing chain. Manual trans obviously... I kept my mouth shut and fixed the car under warranty. Also had one with the front crankshaft/harmonic damper seal lip flipped outwards causing a pretty fast leak, but was caught and fixed in a timely manner as to not run the engine critically low on oil. Replaced the PCV valve in that car as well, just in case excess crankcase pressure caused the problem. You should have lots of trouble free miles out of that engine with proper care and maintenance.

 

[JustN89]

Originally Posted By: 69Torino
The NU engines have been crazy reliable. The only internal engine failures I've seen have been from gross neglect. In other words, 15-20k miles between oil changes with who knows what oil, running low on oil, etc. I did have one NU engine that jumped time (timing chain skipped teeth) but the customer admitted that the car rolled backwards in his driveway while parked in gear without the parking brake applied. This rotated the engine backwards and slacked the timing chain. Manual trans obviously... I kept my mouth shut and fixed the car under warranty. Also had one with the front crankshaft/harmonic damper seal lip flipped outwards causing a pretty fast leak, but was caught and fixed in a timely manner as to not run the engine critically low on oil. Replaced the PCV valve in that car as well, just in case excess crankcase pressure caused the problem. You should have lots of trouble free miles out of that engine with proper care and maintenance.

That's great to hear- thank you for your insight!

 

[69Torino]

No problem. Glad to help.

 

[timur38]

Thanks 69Torino for the useful information. By the way what do you think about fuel dilution in the turbo engine? I read about it on kia optima forum where the members highly recommend 5w-40 mostly because it's believed 5w-30 oil becomes too thin from excessive heat and fuel dilution in GDI engines like a 5w-20 which is not good for the engine.

 

[WhizkidTN]

Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
I have the '12 Optima SX 2.0L (tuned and all). See my signature line for what I run now. I think the PP would be fine as well. Just seems that the Castrol Edge fits the bill for me.


Sorry I'm late to the party on this post (10 days ago) but I thought it worthy of mentioning that I've replaced more than a handful of tuned 2.0 Theta T-GDI engines due to melting the ring lands off of piston #2. It begins by customer complaining of running rough and check engine light on. Cause is melting the ground electrode off the spark plug in cylinder #2. I put a plug in it and suggest the tune be removed. Customer then comes back a predictable amount of time later with lots of leakdown in #2. These ECU tunes tend to lean out cylinder 2 because # 2 is a straight shot from the throttle body to the head in the intake manifold. 2016 2.0 T-GDI intake manifold redesign has corrected this "design feature". These engines will lean out #2 in bone stock trim, and a hotter boost map will only exacerbate the problem. I can tell when there is a tune on the car because the ECU ROM ID reads XXXXXXXXXX instead of a serial number, and there are several PID's in Live Data that are obviously fudged numbers.

Just a courteous advisement to Hyundai/Kia 2.0 T-GDI owners, especially 2011-2015 model years. 0w-40 or 5w-40 will not prevent this. 274 horsepower out of a Kia 2.0 liter turbocharged 4 cylinder is near the durability limit to begin with.

May the odds be ever in your favor.

Thanks for your perspective and having been on the Kia forums since 2012 am very aware of the weaknesses in this first 2.0L turbo engine. I run a much colder plug (HKS M40XL) than stock due to this issue and I also run what is the better ECU tune out there (LAP3USA Stage 1.5+) on only Top Tier 93 octane gas w/dual catch cans. All in an attempt to generate plenty of power when needed but still stay in the "safe zone". SO far, so good!

FWIW: Since new, I ran M1 0W-40 oil with an OCI of 4K miles. After many Blackstone reports (all good), I decided to run a dual Blackstone/Polaris UOA on a sample last winter. I was VERY bothered to see such high fuel dilution in the Polaris report (over 5%) but less than 0.5% with Blackstone - this apparently is a common complaint. My oxidation numbers were in the red at 33! I switched to Castrol Edge 0W-40 oil and with the same OCI of ~4K miles, my oxidation numbers dropped to 14 (which is in the clear), fuel dilution was still over 5% but my TBN was a strong 13.8. Wear metals have always been very low on all samples over the life of the engine thus far. I'll stick with Castrol Edge 0W-40 and 4K OCI. Engine runs/idles great, very smooth and strong. I can only guess that our turbo GDI engine seems to be a fuel dilution monster but yet doesn't seem, as of yet, to have issues from that as a result.

 

[DTAM]

I have a 2013 Optima 2.0T with 60k. I have run a 80/20 blend of M1 TDT 5w40 and M1 5w30 since the very first oil change. My wear numbers have been excellent with a 5k OCI. I am 100% stock without a catch can. There have been zero problems on the motor. My only warranty issue to date was a seeping transmission pan due to bad machining in the transmission housing. Transmission was replaced at 2000 miles and trouble free since.

Recently switched to PUP 5w30 for one or two OCI to thin my stash and will be going back to M1 TDT or the T6 multi vehicle if I can find it at a reasonable cost.

UOA:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...13_#Post4631997

 

[jgscott]

Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Yes, 2015 is revised internally. Connecting rods and bearings. Thus the Theta II connecting rod bearing recall is not applicable to 2015 models. Everything bolted to the outside of the 2015 engines are the same, intake and exhaust manifolds etc. Metal shavings are the result of the affected engines' flawed assembly, not the cause. It has been hypothesized among factory training center instructors and several Kia Master Techs (myself included), the problem is that selective size connecting rod bearings are used in these engines and the wrong size (thickness) were selected at assembly. I've torn down dozens of these engines after failure, and all of the failures are due to excessive connecting rod clearance. Hope this info helps.

As far as oil selection, our dealership has used Valvoline Full Synthetic in both 5w-20 and 5w-30 for quite some time now to service all Kia and Mitsubishi cars. I personally use this in my 2015 Optima 2.4 lease, with a K&N HP-1004 oil filter and in my 2003 Mercury Marauder with a Ford Racing Performance Parts FL820S filter. This oil carries Dexos1 Gen2 approval for what it's worth.

On another note, when Theta engines are replaced under the SC147 connecting rod recall, Kia mandates the use of Mobil conventional 5W-30 as the break in oil, in both the 2.0 Turbo and the 2.4. They keep track of this by sending it to us in 55 gallon drums and warranty admin requires it to be charged to the repair order when the engine connecting rod inspection or engine replacement is completed. So Kia likes and/or requires Mobil conventional 5w-30 to be in there at least one time. Kia does not require our bulk oil to meet any specs besides API current spec, but our service manager is an ex General Motors service advisor and prefers to carry Dexos approved oil in bulk, for which I do not blame him. Typically the cars that come to us with either a locked up engine or a connecting rod hammering have NOT been serviced exclusively by our dealership and either have no oil change sticker in the window, or a Jiffy Lube, Wal-Mart or Firestone sticker, and some aftermarket version of the downsized PH6607 equivalent oil filter. (Smaller Nissan Filter that aftermarket TLE places use interchangeably with the proper, larger PH9688 equivalent). Probably because it's cheaper. So I would venture a guess that most of the engines replaced are also mistreated to some degree.

Sorry for the very wordy answer, but in conclusion I would, and do in fact use Valvoline Full Synthetic 5w-20 in mine and my customers' cars.


Thanks for all the detailed answers. I though I read the the defect was the crank shavings and metal getting in and clogging oil passages and lines, and interfered with the oil system? And..... If I may ask you a few more question please?
1. Does the 2015 SX 2.0T have forged internals? My guess would be no?
2. Have you seen failures with the 2015 2.0T? What were they, if so?
3. Is there anything special with the Kia factory oil filter vs say a Fram Ultra Sys filter?

As soon as we got the car last weekend (2015 Kia Optima 2.0T w/ 36k), I took it to the Kia dealer and had them change the oil and filter with PP Full Sys Dex 5w-30 and Kia Fact Filter. My plan is to continue every 5k with the same PP Full Sys Dex 5w-30 and Kia Fact Filter or Fram Ultra sys filter. Think I should swith to the Valvoline you mentioned in 5w-30? Thanks.

 

[ChrisD46]

69Torino : I just started using PP 5W30 DEXOS1 Gen 2 in my 2017 2.4L non - turbo Sonata - it is a thin for grade 30W which may be beneficial for those non - turbo 2.4L engine owners who can't decide between a 20W or a 30W oil . With Gen 2 rating it is shear resistant (good against fuel dilution in DI engines) along with improved timing chain protection and LSPI prevention. Lastly , good lubrication and cleaning if not run for long OCI's (i.e. more than 5,000 miles) ... Your thoughts ?
Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Originally Posted By: timur38
Thanks 69Torino, so there are no advantages of using 5w-40 in 2.0 turbo engine?


Really only in hot climates will be an advantage with a 40 weight. You won't hurt anything but your fuel mileage. Anywhere that gets under 70 degrees F will be doing well to have a good synthetic Xw-30 synthetic, especially name brand with manufacturers approvals.

You can absolutely use 0 or 5w-30 in the 2.4 non-turbo engine, but never 0 or 5w-20 in a 2.0 T-GDI. Only 30 weight or better, and they seem to have good power and fuel mileage on 30 weight oils vs 40 weights. The variable valve timing reacts much quicker on thinner oils, which translates into better low end torque "feel", due to the quicker moving cam phasers. In my humble opinion, oil flow is vastly more important than oil pressure or using a higher viscosity to make you feel better inside. Faster oil flow is also good for bearing cooling, both in the main and rod bearings and the turbo bushings. These turbos have bronze bushings, not bearings. They LOVE oil flow. I have a failed turbo shaft/wheel assembly in my garage, I'll try to post a pic of it tonight. Bronze transferred to the shaft and it became very noisy and barely produced boost pressure.

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted By: timur38
Thanks 69Torino for the useful information. By the way what do you think about fuel dilution in the turbo engine? I read about it on kia optima forum where the members highly recommend 5w-40 mostly because it's believed 5w-30 oil becomes too thin from excessive heat and fuel dilution in GDI engines like a 5w-20 which is not good for the engine.


Yes, they put a lot of fuel in the oil. That is a fact. The best way to mitigate all concerns in one solution, to me, is to use the OEM recommended 5-30, but to dump it at 3,000-4,000 miles. Some see it as wasteful but I don't. The cleanest oil is new oil, and oil is always cheaper than a new short block. I say 30 weight because the Thetas, as I mentioned, have variable valve timing and the oil control valves are a certain distance away from the cam actuator. Kia and Hyundai have since redesigned the oil control valves to be integrated into the center bolt holding the phasers to the nose of the cam. This is to reduce reaction time of the phaser from the moment control command gets sent from the pcm to the oil control valve. The Niro, 2016 up 2.4 and 2.0, and Stinger have all adopted this new type of oil control valve. This is why 30 weight oil in a 2.0 T-GDI is important to me, to maintain the engineered time for CVVT actuation for best mileage and power. The lay person may never notice the difference, but after driving thousands of them over several years, you start noticing the minutiae.

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
69Torino : I just started using PP 5W30 DEXOS1 Gen 2 in my 2017 2.4L non - turbo Sonata - it is a thin for grade 30W which may be beneficial for those non - turbo 2.4L engine owners who can't decide between a 20W or a 30W oil . With Gen 2 rating it is shear resistant (good against fuel dilution in DI engines) along with improved timing chain protection and LSPI prevention. Lastly , good lubrication and cleaning if not run for long OCI's (i.e. more than 5,000 miles) ... Your thoughts ?
Originally Posted By: 69Torino
Originally Posted By: timur38
Thanks 69Torino, so there are no advantages of using 5w-40 in 2.0 turbo engine?


Really only in hot climates will be an advantage with a 40 weight. You won't hurt anything but your fuel mileage. Anywhere that gets under 70 degrees F will be doing well to have a good synthetic Xw-30 synthetic, especially name brand with manufacturers approvals.


You can absolutely use 0 or 5w-30 in the 2.4 non-turbo engine, but never 0 or 5w-20 in a 2.0 T-GDI. Only 30 weight or better, and they seem to have good power and fuel mileage on 30 weight oils vs 40 weights. The variable valve timing reacts much quicker on thinner oils, which translates into better low end torque "feel", due to the quicker moving cam phasers. In my humble opinion, oil flow is vastly more important than oil pressure or using a higher viscosity to make you feel better inside. Faster oil flow is also good for bearing cooling, both in the main and rod bearings and the turbo bushings. These turbos have bronze bushings, not bearings. They LOVE oil flow. I have a failed turbo shaft/wheel assembly in my garage, I'll try to post a pic of it tonight. Bronze transferred to the shaft and it became very noisy and barely produced boost pressure.


ChrisD46,
If it makes you feel any better, Kia requires us to use Mobil 5W-30 conventional as the break in oil on new long blocks when replaced for the Theta II connecting rod recall. So obviously Kia is ok with 5W-30 in a 2.4 non turbo, unfortunately I am not privileged to the reasoning behind it. It may be as simple as being cheaper to only use one oil for both 2.0T and 2.4NA engines. On the other hand, there is also a reason Kia is willing to pick up the tab on the oil. Possibly because if they know exactly what's going into them for the break in period, they then know that synthetic oil isn't being used for break in. I have seen it come to pass that a new short or long engine has been installed and broken in on our Valvoline Synthetic due to laziness of the technician (faster from bulk than pumping out of a drum) and created an oil burner due to non seated piston rings. So I do know that Kia wants conventional oil for break in, and they are fine with it being 5w-30 in a 2.4. So I say it's fine. Go forth with the 5w-30. Hope this helps!

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted By: jgscott

1. Does the 2015 SX 2.0T have forged internals? My guess would be no?
2. Have you seen failures with the 2015 2.0T? What were they, if so?
3. Is there anything special with the Kia factory oil filter vs say a Fram Ultra Sys filter?


To answer your questions concisely;

1. I don't know about the crankshaft for sure, but the casting parting line is thin. Usually a thin parting line in a casting is indicative of a cast steel or nodular iron crankshaft. A forged steel crankshaft will usually have a large parting line. So my educated guess is that it is either cast or nodular iron. The connecting rods are forged powdered metal with cracked caps. This means that they are scored and precisely broken instead of cut in half on the big (crankshaft) end.
2. I have seen failures, but all of the failures I've seen have been due to gross neglect. Low oil level, lack of maintenance etc.
3. The only special differences in the Kia 504 filter is the extremely thick can and excellent flow rate. The only reservation I would have with an ultra efficient oil filter such as the Fram Ultra is that sometimes very efficient oil filters don't flow as well as conventional cellulose filters. I have a picture of the Kia display for oil filters for your amusement:

And there is no reason to dump the PP for Valvoline specifically, Valvoline is just my personal preference. Any good name brand Synthetic that meets specs should be fine.

 

[MParr]

Refreshing to hear from a KIA Tec. I have a 2013 EX 2.4. I left the factory fill in for 5,000 miles. I used 5W20 for a couple of oil changes. I made note of the famous Hyundai engine problems and I knew KIA would soon follow. I switched to 5W30 for that reason and because, the owners manual listed it as being acceptable. I wouldn’t worry too much about those Dexos branded oils. Motorcraft Synthetic Blend doesn’t have the Dexos seal of approval yet, it’s specified for Ford Ecoboost engines. You will be perfectly fine running a quality 5W30 Blend or Synthetic. Keep that factory fill in there for 5,000 miles.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted By: MParr
Refreshing to hear from a KIA Tec. I have a 2013 EX 2.4. I left the factory fill in for 5,000 miles. I used 5W20 for a couple of oil changes. I made note of the famous Hyundai engine problems and I knew KIA would soon follow. I switched to 5W30 for that reason and because, the owners manual listed it as being acceptable. I wouldn’t worry too much about those Dexos branded oils. Motorcraft Synthetic Blend doesn’t have the Dexos seal of approval yet, it’s specified for Ford Ecoboost engines. You will be perfectly fine running a quality 5W30 Blend or Synthetic. Keep that factory fill in there for 5,000 miles.


i highly doubt MC blend will be DEXOS approved as they carry fords certifications so why bother with DEXOS?

 

[69Torino]

Motorcraft oil carrying Dexos approval would come with it War, Pestilence, Famine, and Death!

 

[MParr]

car51
Exactly!

 

[timur38]

69Torino, is the new type of oil control valve implemented in 2018 optima 2.0 engines? Somewhere on the BITOG I read that premium fuel helps reduce fuel dilution. Do you know is this true? Thanks!