Kia / Hyundai engine issues disproportionately in US?

FCD

Joined
Oct 22, 2015
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Mallorca, Balearic Islands, Spain
I'm from Spain, but i follow many American so called Youtuber Mechanics on Youtube Facebook IG etc.
Almost every day i see either a Instagram or Fb reel about Kia and Hyundqai gasoline GDi engines being crap and blowing up all the time.

But i just don't see that here, i know several mechanics and people who have Hyundais and Kias with Gdi engines and they are not having problems like that.

In fact here Kia and Hyundai are very proud that and advertise alk the time that they provide a 7 year / 150.000km ( 90k mile ) warranty on all their models.
 
I think that because the North American market is by far the largest for Hyundai/Kia this gives a skewed impression. The North American market is nearly twice the size of the next largest market for the brand which is Europe. For every car sold in Europe, there are two sold in North America.

Also, the brand is considered an inexpensive alternative to other mainstream brands and therefore attracts a buyer that is less likely to maintain the vehicle as it should be. This leads to excessively long oil drain intervals or completely neglected maintenance events entirely.

When you break the sales down by country as opposed to continent it's even more staggering. Data pulled from a quick internet query showed that Hyundai sold 796,506 cars in the United States in 2023. Hyundai sold 59,503 cars in Spain. With these data points it's no wonder you see far more issues with Hyundai in their largest market than you do other lower-sales areas.

You might pass 3 broken down Chevys on the side of the road on any given Saturday and not see a single broken down Fiat. This, by no means, equates to the idea that Fiat is a far superior vehicle. It simply means that there are a lot of Chevys on the road and not much more.
 
@FCD - what kind of use do they get in Spain? What kind of KM/year is common. Is it mostly city driving or the expressway? Possibly this is a key to the issue - it would be interesting to know.

This came up here a while back. The more compelling response for me was someone that had many of the Theta2 engines in the family, all well maintained. Some went pop and some did not. Dashboard light says the same.

The other thing is they all seem to burn oil.

I don't think you can blame the Theta2 thing on owners or maintenance. Even Hyundai has admitted it.

The real question is - are the newer Theta 2 or the Nue fixed?

Its unfortunately as I am on record saying I like the design of these new cars, and we definately need more and better low cost options in the market.
 
Between my wife and I, we’ve had 3 Hyundai/KIA vehicles. We had a 2002 KIA Rio, a 2006 Hyundai Tucson, and a 2013 KIA Optima. We had one engine failure on the KIA Rio. That was the result of a timing belt failure. The timing belt failed just past the recommended 60,000 mile scheduled replacement. Our fault. We should have taken it in at 59,000 miles. They were good enough to warranty the engine. Although, they changed us $500 for labor.
 
Between my wife and I, we’ve had 3 Hyundai/KIA vehicles. We had a 2002 KIA Rio, a 2006 Hyundai Tucson, and a 2013 KIA Optima. We had one engine failure on the KIA Rio. That was the result of a timing belt failure. The timing belt failed just past the recommended 60,000 mile scheduled replacement. Our fault. We should have taken it in at 59,000 miles. They were good enough to warranty the engine. Although, they changed us $500 for labor.
The pre Theta 2 / MPI were definitely better.

How many miles did you get on the Optima, I believe that was a early Theta2 GDI?
 
(just my opinion....)
The 2.0 and 2.4 engines (vast majority TGDI) between 2012 and 2020 were / are HyunKia's nightmare engines. Most were / are ownership neglect issues, compunded by a huge error in Hyunkia engineering that stated the correct viscosity for these engines was 5w20 blend and purchasers were wrongly allowed to pursue 7.5k OCIs. Hyunkia Inc never warned owners by letterhead about moving to a thicker viscosity and that low dipstick oil levels would bring disastrous results to these engines, which were manufactured with soft metallurgy..... most notably connective rod bearings.

To a lesser degree, the 1.6 and Hyundai's V6 engine were also seeing failure rates beyond the norm.
 
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Where are you engines manufactured?

I believe the majority of Hyundai/Kia engines sold in the US are made domestically. It is a huge global company that does alot of business in SE Asia too who do not usually opt for the fat and cursed 2.4 L engines, so this is an interesting question as to where yours was sourced from.
 
IIRC H/K's engine problems (at least with the 2.4) resulted from casting swarf being left in the engines made at the Alabama plant. There could be 'soft metallurgy' issues as well. I wouldn't be surprised if those engines made in Korea have fewer issues. I did notice that my nieces 2013 Optima used a lot of oil when running 5w20....a little less when running 5w30.....and virtually none when running 5w40.

When my s-i-l (nieces mother) bought a low mileage (20K) 2020 Sorento 2.4 last year I went with 5w30 from the first OCI. Her husband has a 2008 Sonata 2.4 that burns no oil of any weight and has 140K. I found it for him used just before used car prices skyrocketed (under $5000 with 58K miles but needing a new front bumper). He loves that car and could get nearly what he paid for it now. My 2008 Elantra was a great car too but I wouldn't touch a new H/K right now.
 
I n Europe people take better care of their cars. They don't consider using up a car and then throwing it away. They also rarely drive with the pedal to the metal. They get a lot of that driving out of their system before they can afford a car

This is inaccurate. Average age of cars in North America is the same in Europe, 12 vs 12.3 from a quick google search.

When it comes to pedal to the metal, that's not true either. You guys have the autobahn there (for a start), and I find in my area of North America there are way too many slow drivers. I've driven in Europe, the only thing I'd say that's different is that most people respect the "drive on the right, pass on the left" rule which far too many people in NA do not follow. That's about it.

Nobody here views cars as disposable. I have no idea where you got that from. Keep in mind that much of NA uses huge amounts of salt on the winter roads, I don't know if they do that everywhere in EU but here it absolutely wrecks cars and puts them down and out before the rest of the car is done. Lots of pickups and suv here could go for a lot longer but they're just rotted through, even despite under oiling them.
 
But i just don't see that here, i know several mechanics and people who have Hyundais and Kias with Gdi engines and they are not having problems like that.
Do you have many Hyundais with GDI engines in Spain, or are they mostly MPI and Diesel?

What kind of oil do people run in their GDI engines in Spain and Europe? What viscosity?

Thank you.
 
I currently own a 2022 MPI 2.0 running Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 exclusively so far. I may run Valvoline R&P 5W-30 in the future. It gets 5K mile OCIs and regular use of Barryman B12 for varnish and Techron for carbon build up. These are fairly easy miles. It's an n=1 case but if this engine grenades then there is no reasonably predictable way to prevent self-destruction.

My educated guess is most of these issues are a combination of DI and carbon build up + poor maintenance + some weakness in design/manufacturing. My hope is MPI + diligent maintenance using products that are designs to keep internals/rings clean will be enough to at least get +100K miles out if this engine.
 
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I'm from Spain, but i follow many American so called Youtuber Mechanics on Youtube Facebook IG etc.
Almost every day i see either a Instagram or Fb reel about Kia and Hyundqai gasoline GDi engines being crap and blowing up all the time.

But i just don't see that here, i know several mechanics and people who have Hyundais and Kias with Gdi engines and they are not having problems like that.

In fact here Kia and Hyundai are very proud that and advertise alk the time that they provide a 7 year / 150.000km ( 90k mile ) warranty on all their models.
Where are the Hyundais sold in Spain manufactured? Most Hyundai engine problems come from the US plants, not Korean.
 
Do you have many Hyundais with GDI engines in Spain, or are they mostly MPI and Diesel?

What kind of oil do people run in their GDI engines in Spain and Europe? What viscosity?

Thank you.
GDi and CRdi Diesel, i believe there are still some port injection engines being offered in some of the smaller models like the Hyundai i10 and i20? i believe they still spec 5W-30 but i may be wrong.
 
GDi and CRdi Diesel, i believe they still spec 5W-30 but i may be wrong.
In many European countries and other parts of the world, Hyundai recommends higher-spec lubricants than those specified in the US. This includes not just higher viscosity oils but also ACEA A3/B4 motor oils.

Unfortunately, Hyundai's approach in the US and Canada has been problematic. The 2.4L Theta II engine is essentially a Theta I engine with GDI replacing MPI. Hyundai did not reinforce the rod bearings to handle the increased cylinder pressure and failed to address fuel dilution and customer neglect. This issue was exacerbated by Hyundai's specification of 5W-20 oil for these engines in the US and Canada, primarily to improve fuel economy numbers and comply with EPA regulations, thus maintaining favorable CAFE numbers. By the time Hyundai recognized their error, it was too late. In an attempt to rectify the situation, Hyundai issued TCBs to dealers, recommending the use of 5W-30 oil in the NA 2.4 Theta II engines and 5W-40 in the turbocharged versions (2.0T). While most dealers adhered to the TCB and used 5W-30 in these engines, very few used 5W-40 in the turbo engines, instead opting for 5W-30, particularly in the first-generation Hyundai Genesis Coupe.

I have owned several Hyundais equipped with the 2.4L Theta I, Theta II, Lambda I, and Lambda II engines. After reviewing the European owner's manuals for these vehicles, I decided to use 0W-40 in the Theta II engines and 5W-40 in the Lambda II, both GDI engines. Consequently, I never encountered any issues with them. I regularly changed the oil every 5,000 to 7,500 miles, avoided short trips, and consistently used high-quality gasoline. Conversely, those who relied on low-quality dealership bulk 5W-20 oil, frequently short-tripped their vehicles, and extended their OCIs often faced engine problems. I witnessed several cases at my local dealership where connecting rods had exited through the block, including some hybrid models. Technicians attributed these failures to poor maintenance on the owner's part, yet Hyundai still honored the warranty.

However, Hyundai has now tightened its warranty requirements. They require proof that owners have not neglected their vehicles. Consequently, every new Hyundai now comes with 36 months of free oil changes. Although I personally would not take advantage of this, as I prefer to change my oil myself and avoid using dealership bulk oil, I appreciate Hyundai's efforts to keep vehicles on the road and reduce warranty claims.

In the United States, there is often concern among vehicle owners about oil viscosity in relation to potential warranty claims. However, manufacturers are generally more focused on whether owners are changing their oil regularly rather than the specific viscosity used, such as 5W-30 instead of 0W-20. Issues may arise if an owner uses an inappropriate viscosity, like 20W-50, in colder climates such as the northern states or Canada, which could indeed affect a warranty claim. Nonetheless, the notion that manufacturers are overly fixated on oil viscosity is not accurate. On the other hand, European vehicles present a different scenario, as the lubricants used must also carry OEM approvals.
 
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I get fuel dilution problems with a Xw40 w oil I can't imagine what it would be like with the factory swill 5w20.

The issue was exacerbated by customers opting for cheap gasoline and neglecting the use of PEA fuel system cleaners. This, combined with extended oil change intervals (OCIs), led to the low-tension piston rings sticking, which resulted in oil consumption. Many of these engines were severely damaged due to owner neglect, as they were run low on oil.

A rod knock might be invisible, but it's certainly not inaudible. Many owners, whose engines didn't seize from neglect, continued driving their vehicles with knocking sounds until at least one rod exited the block. Subsequently, they blamed Hyundai for the failures.

You might wonder why people treated their cars this way. It's important to consider that Hyundai/KIA's target demographic ten to fifteen years ago consisted of low to medium-income customers, many with sub-prime credit. For me, Hyundais were always affordable vehicles that didn't cost much to own and maintain. I never encountered major issues with them and could always justify my warranty claims, which were few and never drivetrain-related.

Many of these customers were not educated on vehicle maintenance and lacked the financial means to pay for it. Consequently, their Hyundais and KIAs received minimal maintenance, if any.

Additionally, there is a category of buyer I refer to as the "smart wannabe buyer." These individuals purchase used vehicles, thinking they can save on depreciation. The problem is that buying a used Hyundai/KIA often means inheriting the previous owner's neglect. If the vehicle was repossessed, it is almost certain that no one took proper care of it.

I hope this clarifies why Hyundais and KIAs have a perceived reliability issue in the US. If Toyota or Honda had lowered their prices in the past decade and offered financing to anyone with a pulse, they would likely face similar challenges today.
 
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