Just had to remove FRAM XG4967!

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: defektes
...
I just do not fathom how a oil filter could cause a HP loss?
The oil pressure adjust the intake cam phasing in a 40 degree window. The engine may be OVERTLY sensitive to pressure and flow.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
Sounds to me like some people here (ahem : engineers) need to take some statistical methodology classes.

Just my observation coming from a math/statistics double major.

NO statistics required in this situation. The oil filter didnt fit. Yes SS=1 but I'll bet $$ to donuts that every 4967 on my local walmart shelf does not fit. If I wasnt heading to FLA tomorrow Id measure the OEM toyota/denso filter that came on the car from Japan and the Fram and a Wix and report the findings. This would be a mesurement of distance from the plane of the gasket surface to the 1st thread in the baseplate hole.

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Sounds to me like some people here (ahem : engineers) need to take some statistical methodology classes.

Just my observation coming from a math/statistics double major.

NO statistics required in this situation. The oil filter didnt fit. Yes SS=1 but I'll bet $$ to donuts that every 4967 on my local walmart shelf does not fit. If I wasnt heading to FLA tomorrow Id measure the OEM toyota/denso filter that came on the car from Japan and the Fram and a Wix and report the findings. This would be a mesurement of distance from the plane of the gasket surface to the 1st thread in the baseplate hole.


Statistical methods simply is the study of observed correlation of significant variables and the interpretation of such.

I think that you have pre-concluded which variable has affected the outcome, which is a big violation in statistical studies.

But, that's MY observation of the last 2 pages of posts and I am 95% confident in that interpretation.

 

[defektes]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: defektes
...
I just do not fathom how a oil filter could cause a HP loss?
The oil pressure adjust the intake cam phasing in a 40 degree window. The engine may be OVERTLY sensitive to pressure and flow.


It could also be that the HM oil is a bit thicker, with a little more restrictive oil filter.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Sounds to me like some people here (ahem : engineers) need to take some statistical methodology classes.

Just my observation coming from a math/statistics double major.

NO statistics required in this situation. The oil filter didnt fit. Yes SS=1 but I'll bet $$ to donuts that every 4967 on my local walmart shelf does not fit. If I wasnt heading to FLA tomorrow Id measure the OEM toyota/denso filter that came on the car from Japan and the Fram and a Wix and report the findings. This would be a mesurement of distance from the plane of the gasket surface to the 1st thread in the baseplate hole.


Statistical methods simply is the study of observed correlation of significant variables and the interpretation of such.

I think that you have pre-concluded which variable has affected the outcome, which is a big violation in statistical studies.

But, that's MY observation of the last 2 pages of posts and I am 95% confident in that interpretation.


Simple logic worked this time - I suppose it depends if you are RESULTS focused or just like to make flowery powerpoint presentations

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: lui
uhhgggrr...when i read stuff like this it makes me hate coming to this website even more.



Why? It's some of the best entertainment on the web!

 

[westwind999]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: daman

anyway you going to cut this bad boy open so we can see!!!!

Id rather mail it to somebody who wants to use it. It was only in service for a couple days with fresh M1 synthetic. I wouldnt expect to see anything wrong with it.


What makes you think it's not defective? You state it didn't work on your car. Did you try another one to confirm that they are all bad on your car. Maybe it's just this one. Cut it open and see, maybe the Fram engineers can fix the problem on future models based on what you find.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

This filter could only be tightened bypass around the nipple threads since its a loose class 3/4"-16 UNC thread fit.


I think you said in another post that the filter only turned ~2 turns total from initial thread engagement to fully tight on the base. If so, that doesn't seem like much total thread engagement at all. Means the filter only had ~1 to 1-1/4 turn on the mount stud before the gasket first hit the seat (?). That XG4967 filter base must be very concaved, and/or the mounting stud on your engine is relatively short.

As far as the threads leaking back oil, I doubt they are causing oil to drain back even though they are cut loose. When the filter is tight, the mating thread surfaces must still be tight against each other, even though the threads are cut loose.

 

[crazyoildude]

I would never use a fram oil filter but i cant see how even a fram can make you lose power in a warmed up motor..

 

[D Bone]

It was more likely the muffler bearings weren't up to operating temp.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I would never use a fram oil filter but i cant see how even a fram can make you lose power in a warmed up motor..


He didn't indicate (iirc) any ABSOLUTE loss of power. It was a perception thing. Now when you're "one with the machine" as Arco has been (now keep in mind, given how he treats his machines, that "oneness" may be not unlike how a herder, in the loneliness of the highlands, is one with his flock ...so to speak

) you can be quite sensitive to things going on inside it.

It's sorta like a somewhat toxic ZEN thing. He can feel it

 

[aquariuscsm]

On the Fram note,I used them all the time (the OCOD`s) until I joined BITOG :^P I never once had a problem with them. In all honesty,I think any filter will be more than what we need. I just use the Nissan ones mostly on a purists point of view I guess. I`d have no probs whatsoever throwing an OCOD on my car. By the way,what`s the main difference between the orange Frams and the gray ones?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
By the way,what`s the main difference between the orange Frams and the gray ones?


Probably about two bucks a piece.

Canadian Tire was just advertising Fram filters, with prices starting at $4.99! What an awesome deal, except I can get Wix for that.

Fram may be a reasonable effective filter. It's construction and build quality, however, do not justify the price.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
It was more likely the muffler bearings weren't up to operating temp.
Yeahhh, that's the ticket!

Quote:
By the way,what`s the main difference between the orange Frams and the gray ones?
Gray, TG has silicone adbv, screen over bypass and better rated efficiency. Construction similar to many Honeywell made OEM's.

Quote:
Fram may be a reasonable effective filter. It's construction and build quality, however, do not justify the price.
And, that is the bottom line on the orange can. I've said many times, feel for the folks north of the border with limited choice of reasonably priced, readily available quality filters.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I would never use a fram oil filter but i cant see how even a fram can make you lose power in a warmed up motor..


He didn't indicate (iirc) any ABSOLUTE loss of power. It was a perception thing. Now when you're "one with the machine" as Arco has been (now keep in mind, given how he treats his machines, that "oneness" may be not unlike how a herder, in the loneliness of the highlands, is one with his flock ...so to speak

) you can be quite sensitive to things going on inside it.

It's sorta like a somewhat toxic ZEN thing. He can feel it

I am in the zone with the Toyota, but I can't feel much change between oils on my wifes Subaru other than piston noise when warm, but again the tiny Yaris 3DR with its motorbike sized engine and manual transmission telegraphs any incremental change in power; the VVTi is VERY quirky. Now some of you guys are just numb - you couldnt tell the diff between a Gallo Jug Burgundy and a 750ml bottle of "Seven Deadly ZINS"

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

I am in the zone with the Toyota, but I can't feel much change between oils on my wifes Subaru other than piston noise when warm, but again the tiny Yaris 3DR with its motorbike sized engine and manual transmission telegraphs any incremental change in power; the VVTi is VERY quirky. Now some of you guys are just numb - you couldnt tell the diff between a Gallo Jug Burgundy and a 750ml bottle of "Seven Deadly ZINS"

I think we now have found the reason for Arco and his posts!

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Sounds to me like some people here (ahem : engineers) need to take some statistical methodology classes.

Just my observation coming from a math/statistics double major.

NO statistics required in this situation. The oil filter didnt fit. Yes SS=1 but I'll bet $$ to donuts that every 4967 on my local walmart shelf does not fit. If I wasnt heading to FLA tomorrow Id measure the OEM toyota/denso filter that came on the car from Japan and the Fram and a Wix and report the findings. This would be a mesurement of distance from the plane of the gasket surface to the 1st thread in the baseplate hole.


Statistical methods simply is the study of observed correlation of significant variables and the interpretation of such.

I think that you have pre-concluded which variable has affected the outcome, which is a big violation in statistical studies.

But, that's MY observation of the last 2 pages of posts and I am 95% confident in that interpretation.


Simple logic worked this time - I suppose it depends if you are RESULTS focused or just like to make flowery powerpoint presentations

I've learned that most people's simple logic is, well, simple.

Especially engineers.

Presentations have nothing to do with statistical theory, for what it's worth.

I once did a project that resulted in a correlation between city urban crime and the amount of doctors. I was somewhat amazed that the other dozen or so variables (prisons, education, etc) did not affect the outcomes. Simple logic would have pre-concluded that those other variables would have indeed been correlated, but I would have been wrong. It's made me question what other "logical" conclusions I've come to in my decision making and attempt to think outside of my own limitations.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

I am in the zone with the Toyota, but I can't feel much change between oils on my wifes Subaru other than piston noise when warm, but again the tiny Yaris 3DR with its motorbike sized engine and manual transmission telegraphs any incremental change in power; the VVTi is VERY quirky. Now some of you guys are just numb - you couldnt tell the diff between a Gallo Jug Burgundy and a 750ml bottle of "Seven Deadly ZINS"

I think we now have found the reason for Arco and his posts!

Couldn't have made it up!

Just don't drink and drive Arco.

 

[Autobahn88]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I would never use a fram oil filter but i cant see how even a fram can make you lose power in a warmed up motor..


He didn't indicate (iirc) any ABSOLUTE loss of power. It was a perception thing. Now when you're "one with the machine" as Arco has been (now keep in mind, given how he treats his machines, that "oneness" may be not unlike how a herder, in the loneliness of the highlands, is one with his flock ...so to speak

) you can be quite sensitive to things going on inside it.

It's sorta like a somewhat toxic ZEN thing. He can feel it

I am in the zone with the Toyota, but I can't feel much change between oils on my wifes Subaru other than piston noise when warm, but again the tiny Yaris 3DR with its motorbike sized engine and manual transmission telegraphs any incremental change in power; the VVTi is VERY quirky. Now some of you guys are just numb - you couldnt tell the diff between a Gallo Jug Burgundy and a 750ml bottle of "Seven Deadly ZINS"

What?? You are kidding, right?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Are the gray Frams pretty good filters? The Nissan ones are around $7 now,and the gray Frams at Walmart are only $4. I also noticed Walmart now has Pennzoil GF5 in 20W50 weight for only a lil over $3 a quart. That`s a pretty cheap oil change :^)