Jasper 5.4 Reman Engine with Cam Phaser Lockout!?

[nthach]

We have municipalities around here that won't even consider purchasing Fords after their issues with the 6.0 in ambulances.

in my part of CA, the school bus and paratransit fleets went back to Ford E-series gassers, one ambulance fleet went to GM for the Duramax but when that contract was up and a new contractor came in, they too went Ford gas. Almost all the city fleets, save for Berkeley(mostly Prius and RAV4 Hybrid for non-police/public works vehicles) are still buying Ford trucks but looking elsewhere for cars - Toyota seems to be that choice now.

The CHP was so irritated with the PTU issues on the Explorer they inked a deal with FCA for Chargers.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

The way I avoid 3V Spark plugs, cam phasers, timing set rebuilds, along with GM 4L60E and other transmission failures, AFM failures, ABS sensor/wheel bearing assembly failures, fuel gauge/instrument cluster failures and more is to.........


Buy Toyotas.

 

[The Critic]

Buy Toyotas.

But then you get the pleasure of resealing leaky timing covers and camshaft housings. And oil consumption.

Pick your poison.

 

[D60]

I'm honestly not sure how Ford is still in business between the mass failures of the 6.0 Powerstroke, 5.4 3V, and the Focus transmissions. With those three it's a matter of when, not if. We have municipalities around here that won't even consider purchasing Fords after their issues with the 6.0 in ambulances.

So much this. The entire SuperDuty line-up is dead to me '05 thru '10 because you either get a horrendous 3V if you want a gasser or a 6.0/6.4 if you want an oil burner. Really, Ford?

Similarly, the F150s get a 3V pretty much '04 thru 2011-ish. Once the EcoBoost showed up that was a better choice. And if you got a bare bones XL like my '07 you could still get a gutless but durable 2V 4.6 until '07 or '08, maybe later?

Then all of a sudden in '11 Ford apparently furloughed engineering Team TFI and Team TTB throwbacks and released the 6.2 (a great gasser) and a the 6.7 (a still-well-respected diesel)

And I own and insure a 4.6 2V, a 5.4 3V and a 6.2, so I at least have experience about which I speak. I'm not afraid to say that something I own is stupid (3V) or gutless (2V) -- it doesn't reflect upon my worth or validity as a person.

People inexplicably take it personally if you speak badly of an inanimate object they own. I don't get it....

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

But then you get the pleasure of resealing leaky timing covers and camshaft housings. And oil consumption.

Pick your poison.

Not me. Got three of them in the driveway, combined 492,000 miles on them. None of those problems. All three ride, drive and look like new under the hood/undercarriage. All three track straight, get the listed or better gas mileage and have better maintenance performed on them than the manufacture recommends or the dealers will advise.

 

[jeepman3071]

So much this. The entire SuperDuty line-up is dead to me '05 thru '10 because you either get a horrendous 3V if you want a gasser or a 6.0/6.4 if you want an oil burner. Really, Ford?

Similarly, the F150s get a 3V pretty much '04 thru 2011-ish. Once the EcoBoost showed up that was a better choice. And if you got a bare bones XL like my '07 you could still get a gutless but durable 2V 4.6 until '07 or '08, maybe later?

Then all of a sudden in '11 Ford apparently furloughed engineering Team TFI and Team TTB throwbacks and released the 6.2 (a great gasser) and a the 6.7 (a still-well-respected diesel)

And I own and insure a 4.6 2V, a 5.4 3V and a 6.2, so I at least have experience about which I speak. I'm not afraid to say that something I own is stupid (3V) or gutless (2V) -- it doesn't reflect upon my worth or validity as a person.

People inexplicably take it personally if you speak badly of an inanimate object they own. I don't get it....

Exactly. The 6.7L has been pretty good so far, although the emissions systems can be expensive. The 6.2L and 7.3L gas seem to be doing pretty well, but like you said '04-'10 is a bad generation of super duties. I know several people who owned one too many problematic trucks during those years that swore off Fords forever. While the mechanicals were bad, I think for some the dealer response (or lack thereof) made things 10x worse.

 

[jeepman3071]

But then you get the pleasure of resealing leaky timing covers and camshaft housings. And oil consumption.

Pick your poison.

Up here Toyota is the answer... until you drive them through a salty winter and the problems start. My friend's 2008 Tacoma didn't survive, the fluid film only delayed the rust. There is no perfect truck solution.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Up here Toyota is the answer... until you drive them through a salty winter and the problems start. My friend's 2008 Tacoma didn't survive, the fluid film only delayed the rust. There is no perfect truck solution.

Tell me how many 2008 GM trucks are on the roads up there?

 

[OVERKILL]

Tell me how many 2008 GM trucks are on the roads up there?

Lots, heck, I still see late 90's/pre-'04 F-150's frequently.

 

[nthach]

Exactly. The 6.7L has been pretty good so far, although the emissions systems can be expensive. The 6.2L and 7.3L gas seem to be doing pretty well, but like you said '04-'10 is a bad generation of super duties. I know several people who owned one too many problematic trucks during those years that swore off Fords forever. While the mechanicals were bad, I think for some the dealer response (or lack thereof) made things 10x worse.

Wait… didn’t Ford kill the 6.8L V10 as soon as the 7.3L Godzilla V8 was released, or the 6.2L V8 was the replacement for that?

 

[D60]

Wait… didn’t Ford kill the 6.8L V10 as soon as the 7.3L Godzilla V8 was released, or the 6.2L V8 was the replacement for that?

Ford retained the horrific 3V V10 (I owned one of those, too) after '11 only in F450s and 550s. I don't know if the 7.3 gasser spelled the end for the V10 but we can hope.

Some take this to mean the V10 was somehow more "heavy duty" than the 6.2 (which was superior in every way) but that's simply not true. I'm not exactly sure what Ford was thinking but I think it had something to do with GVWR/emissions/something regulations. @bdcardinal ?

The 3V V10 didn't like idling as it suffered poor lubrication to the valvetrain at idle (as did all the 3V's but it seemed even worse with the V10)....so yeah, let's throw it in applications that are likely to idle a lot like tow trucks, bucket trucks, RV's etc. Brilliant. Go Team TFI!!

OTOH guys in the gas patch around here flog the 6.2 with loaded utility beds, chains on all 4 in muddy adobe clay ruts that are brutal and it just doesn't care. (Here at least the gas patch will always lean Ford or Dodge solely for the durability of the live front axle)

 

[bdcardinal]

Honestly I have no idea with the V10. All I know is whenever I look one up, its 5-7 months out even when we have escalated it as much as possible. I had one show up for a wholesale customer and in the 5 minutes between posting the part and billing it on the RO, the parts locator picked up we had it. I immediately started getting calls from all over, as we were the only dealer in the country that showed one. Some were rather aggressive in telling me I had to sell to them. One dealer who is a notorious pain in the rear, actually sent a customer 300+ miles to us to pick it up without verifying it was actually for sale, that was fun.

So ya, the V10s are a pain all around. I think it was the 2V ones you couldn't get valve cover gaskets from Ford. They were only serviced with the valve cover.

We have had little issues with the 6.2s. We had 2 customers in Raptors scatter them, but they were doing Raptor things.

 

[joekingcorvette]

I'm honestly not sure how Ford is still in business between the mass failures of the 6.0 Powerstroke, 5.4 3V, and the Focus transmissions. With those three it's a matter of when, not if. We have municipalities around here that won't even consider purchasing Fords after their issues with the 6.0 in ambulances.

I totally agree. I think I will get the tried and true GM pushrod engine next time I buy a truck. I have had nothing but good luck with Ford trucks but I buy nice ones that have been well kept. I have not had any issues with the transmission either however I question a lot of the Ford engines whether they are really that good or not. I guess you mainly hear the horror stories as with any auto.

 

[Cujet]

And here I am with a 3V 5.4, with a tune, and 180K troublefree miles. But I use M1 10w-40. Early on with the 5.4’s, the local dealership started warranty replacement of phasers and chains. I guess the hot temps in FL and 5W-20 and 10,000 mile OCI’s was creating a situation where rapid failures were the norm. They immediately switched to 10w-40 and the problem was solved.

I very clearly remember the technicians showing me the disassembled engines and the reasons for Failure. this was way before the tensioner gaskets would blow out. Even then, it was obvious there was insufficient oil getting to the heads. Mostly because it was leaking out everywhere, including the oil pump backplate.

If I were to guess, I’d say 300k miles is no problem For my 5.4 on 10W-40. Probably much more.

 

[14Accent]

While I've certainly seen my share of 5.4 3v cam phaser issues... none of them have appeared in anything even APPROACHING a well cared for vehicle. There will always be outliers, but for the most part the 3v modular motors don't seem any more or less prone to timing issues than their 2v or 4v cohorts.

Now... as far as the spark plugs on the early units: those were definitely a design flaw. That being said: to this day I use the same method of removing the early design 3v plugs that I learned right from a FOMOCO master tech. As crazy as he sounded at first, he was dead right once I put his teachings into practice.

He made sure to clarify that there's always a possibility of failure during any repair, which is fair, but this was his advice which has worked for me 90% of the time: remove the plugs with the engine HOT HOT, and use an impact to do it. This goes against every fiber of any seasoned technician's being... but it works. The heat softens the carbon, and the hammer of the impact breaks the plug loose without separating the two piece design.

Sounds nuts, but it works.

 

[bdcardinal]

While I've certainly seen my share of 5.4 3v cam phaser issues... none of them have appeared in anything even APPROACHING a well cared for vehicle. There will always be outliers, but for the most part the 3v modular motors don't seem any more or less prone to timing issues than their 2v or 4v cohorts.

Now... as far as the spark plugs on the early units: those were definitely a design flaw. That being said: to this day I use the same method of removing the early design 3v plugs that I learned right from a FOMOCO master tech. As crazy as he sounded at first, he was dead right once I put his teachings into practice.

He made sure to clarify that there's always a possibility of failure during any repair, which is fair, but this was his advice which has worked for me 90% of the time: remove the plugs with the engine HOT HOT, and use an impact to do it. This goes against every fiber of any seasoned technician's being... but it works. The heat softens the carbon, and the hammer of the impact breaks the plug loose without separating the two piece design.

Sounds nuts, but it works.

Yup, 3/8 impact is the way.