It's AMSOIL®, not Amsoil

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Originally Posted by StevieC


They have a line of API licensed licensed fluids called OE. But by all means continue to hate on them for their Signature Series and use your castrated API licensed oils instead I mean it's not like there is a plethora of used oil analysis here including extended drain interval ones where the fluid has held up quite well, or anything. Oh and if you could provide proof of lawsuits where warranty was denied for using this oil or where the lubricant failed to hold up and caused damage I'm all ears. Them being around for 40 years should have yielded this by now.
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No, their arguments are ridiculous...

Requesting me to list a pile of failed engines and the lawsuits is yet again, a ridiculous logical fallacy.

They use the 4 ball test to "prove" the superiority of the oils...a test that holds ZERO relevance to automotive oils...and people fall for it.
They claim that to licence would "neuter" their oils...licencing means that they would have to abide by the base oil interchange guidelines, and not swap suppliers without re-testing.

people who want to believe take this as defence of their "superiority".

"continue to hate on them"...that's the last bastion these days isn't it ?
It's not convincing argument, it's emotive dribble, that the fanbois of Amsoil, Royal Purple, et al always wheel out when their feelings are hurt by debate.
 
They use proper tests and no longer use the 4-ball test unless it's applicable. Look at their literature before you go spouting nonsense.
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf (Look at the ASTM numbers on page 4) - See below for this (Graphic)

And here is a reference to independent lab testing, not testing by themselves.
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Based on independent testing in the LSPI engine test as required for the GM dexos1® Gen 2 specification.
https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/motor-oil/articles/smashing-the-industry-standard/


As for lawsuits, I'll take any proof to back-up your claims I just stated lawsuits because that would be the easiest to find.
There tons of used oil analysis here showing it's a good fluid. Show me otherwise. (To back-up your claims)

As for "Continue to hate on them" you started that with your comment above.
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Trust them...they say that getting it approved would make it a lesser product.
And as you can see...people actually BELIEVE THEM !!!
hahahahahaha

Which goes back to my earlier point if they couldn't live up to this "Trust" then they would have been sued into oblivion already. Especially in the Sue-Happy U.S.A. and that hasn't happened at all in the 40+ years they have been around, just sales have continued to grow and grow. Funny how snake-oil claims does that eh?
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tech properties.webp
 
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Originally Posted by 4WD
Hey … didn't you have a new Toyota in your signature recently?

Been away for a while eh?
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Yeah I took a loss on that and traded it for a new Caravan. I couldn't live with that terrible 8-speed Aisin put out that was in the Highlander. It was terrible and I questioned the longevity with the way it was acting.
 
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Yes … been in the EU a while … Can't drive what you don't like … folks think I'm crazy for paying the same for a regular cab as some 4 doors … I drive it, not them …
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Yes … been in the EU a while … Can't drive what you don't like … folks think I'm crazy for paying the same for a regular cab as some 4 doors … I drive it, not them …

Especially when I live in the vehicle daily for my job.
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AMSOIL is not following the conventional practice with their all-caps name. If the individual letters of an acronym or initialism that is used as a name are supposed to be pronounced as a word, spell the name just like any other name with an initial capital for by lower case letters. Think Nasa. If the acronym that is used as a name is pronounced by the individual letters, spell the acronym or initialism with all caps. See CIA. If an acronym that is not a name has entered common usage in spoken language, spell it with all lower case letters. See fubar.
 
My biggest gripe was getting grief for using walmart synthetic oil from one of the Amsoil local sales guys. I thought back then it was better than dino and all was well. Later I was informed it was "fake" and not true synthetic. Ok. But why do I all these years later hear more complaints and clatter from people running the high PAO oils? Oh yeah its polarity is completely nonexistent almost. Also why is Amsoil making OE and XL lines of oil if they are "fake" synthetic oil? That rep that talked to me might want to inform the other Amsoil guys of the "fake" oil. If TRUE synthetic is youf market then why stoop to a lower level just to make a sell? I think they should have stayed in the TRUE synthetic oil market. Had it not been for Amsoil though I would never found Dave and Redline oil. They got one line of street oils and one race and thats it. All are TRUE synthetic oils that dont comprise price.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
They use proper tests and no longer use the 4-ball test unless it's applicable. Look at their literature before you go spouting nonsense.
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf (Look at the ASTM numbers on page 4) - See below for this (Graphic)


Wasn't aware that they had changed test protocols from the gear oil test that they marketed forever...I don't read their site that often...

Originally Posted by StevieC
And here is a reference to independent lab testing, not testing by themselves.
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Based on independent testing in the LSPI engine test as required for the GM dexos1® Gen 2 specification.
https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/motor-oil/articles/smashing-the-industry-standard/


And showing about the same results in the tests as other OTC ...CERTIFIED...Oils

Originally Posted by StevieC
As for lawsuits, I'll take any proof to back-up your claims I just stated lawsuits because that would be the easiest to find.
There tons of used oil analysis here showing it's a good fluid. Show me otherwise. (To back-up your claims)


Please list my claims...

Originally Posted by StevieC
As for "Continue to hate on them" you started that with your comment above.
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Trust them...they say that getting it approved would make it a lesser product.
And as you can see...people actually BELIEVE THEM !!!
hahahahahaha


OK, THEY are claiming that certifying their oils would (and I'll use YOUR words here) "Neuter" them.

And you koolaid drinkers take that on face value.

When to certify them, as I've stated would mean that they can't change basetock suppliers without recertifying certain of the engine tests...IMO, that's their primary driver.

As to the "superior test results"...first off, their sequence IVA results are comparable, not markedly better than their API certificated counterparts...so pray tell how those certificated oils were "neutered" in wear protection.

Originally Posted by StevieC
Which goes back to my earlier point if they couldn't live up to this "Trust" then they would have been sued into oblivion already. Especially in the Sue-Happy U.S.A. and that hasn't happened at all in the 40+ years they have been around, just sales have continued to grow and grow. Funny how snake-oil claims does that eh?
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We know full well that engines survice on all sorts junk, silly practices, additives, mixing, overfull, underfilled, ridiculously long oil changes.

Look at the data that you posted...

One minute they are claiming better wear protection than the standard...which all certificated oils MUST do..
Another claim is pour point against a conventiona 5W30 indicates better cold starting...66% better cold temperature performance...when measured as pour point IN DEGREES F as the measure ?

feeble minded fanbois look at these "proofs" … these "proper" tests … and fall for the whole thing hook line and sinker. They fell for the 4 ball...they still fall for the RAT540 stuff.

I wish more people could read their tripe with a critical eye.

I call again on you to re-list my "claims" to which you reference.

I consider them a decent oil...I abhore their misuses of tests, applicable or no to appeal to the lowest common denominator with a wallet.
 
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

Let's walk through the claims...

wear - claim is against the industry standard certificated wear test...results comparible with their competitors. (used SS 0W20 - sequence IVA allows you to test the thinnest oil in a rnage, and then certify the other, thicker oils off the thinnest, but not the other way...BTW, doesn't that tell you something about viscosity and wear...by the industry standard wear test ?)

LSPI - 100% - that's 100% of tests run with zero ring land failures...OE oils claim exactly the same (scarcely neutered in that regard eh ?)

protects turbochargers - better by 72%...than the specification, not competitors oils, who ALL also have to beat the test.

Cleaning power
* 50% more detergents - than XL series
* 90% better sludge protection...than the standard (why didn't they compare it to the neutered XL, seeing as that's what they compared their first claim to ?...because IT beat the standard also)

Engine Masters Challenge...hmmm....there's something about that challenge...sponsorship etc (BTW, I buy every single engine masters challenge mag...they are $17 down here).

Extended oil changes...they've changed their metric from 25,000 miles (just like Mobil used to claim, and comparable to Mobil 1 0W40 capabilities in MB and BMW certifications))...and now include 700 engine operating hours as well. Honestly, any decent synthetic could do 25,000 miles with the stipulation that it had a minimum average speed of 35.7MPH, or no more than 2 hours idling per day, or nor more than a year...they NEAUTERED themselves. (btw, "if you choose" is not a recommendation)

Preserves horsepower … hmmm ...SS "helped" maintain the horsepower...As StevieC states regularly, the main contributor to longevity is design and manufacture.

Limits oil consumption - via NOACK...again, is an against industry specifications, but...note this time they switched viscosity to the 5W20, which Isn't the 0W20, nor their 5W30...it's the lowest NOACK in the lineup, bar the (politically incorrect) 10w30.

Easier Cold starts - as noted previously, they are claiming that pour point is an indicator of cold startability...that was thrown out by the API decades ago...modern engine tests ? LOL...anyway, they compared their pour point to a conventional, then claim 66 better starting … in degrees F...
* can't use percentages in degrees F
* if their 5W30 was better than the dino, significantly in MRV and CCS, then it MUST be labelled according to the lowers MRV and CCS that the oil meets.
* if you need better than a 5W30, buy a 0W30...if the 5W30 MEETS the specs for a 0W30, then it MUST be labelled as a 0W30

Maintains Protective Viscosity - now that's spin... the STANDARD test limits the oil THICKENING...and all certified oils beat it, and probably handsomely...but later in the paragraph, it's about economy and VVT …

So lets mix some standards, some competitors, some dino, some misapplied specs (4 ball was one, Pour Point is another), cherry pick viscosities and tests, and claim that to certify the above would "neuter" the end result.

BTW, I've only been interested enough to counter the "science" since it as thrust at me earlier as "science"

Oh, and as to "hate" the final argument for those who can't argue...They are, in my opinion decent oils, like ACD...I am looking at their gear oils (since they marketed their engine oils as gear oils for decades)
 
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I can't be bothered because we are going to go in circles again like the Thick/Thin thread.

I will say this though... Where Amsoil Signature Series shines over other oils is extended drain capability. If the average user is using it for a regular OCI of 10K miles or less it has no benefit over quality name brand shelf oils.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
I will say this though... Where Amsoil Signature Series shines over other oils is extended drain capability. If the average user is using it for a regular OCI of 10K miles or less it has no benefit over quality name brand shelf oils.

How long could I run their Signature Series oil in my Sienna and still get the benefit of the Amsoil warranty? Just so I can directly compare against ExxonMobil's warranty of 15,000 miles for their EP product.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by StevieC
I will say this though... Where Amsoil Signature Series shines over other oils is extended drain capability. If the average user is using it for a regular OCI of 10K miles or less it has no benefit over quality name brand shelf oils.

How long could I run their Signature Series oil in my Sienna and still get the benefit of the Amsoil warranty? Just so I can directly compare against ExxonMobil's warranty of 15,000 miles for their EP product.


This is without a used oil analysis confirming it running it longer. 25,000 miles under normal operating conditions and 15,000 miles under heavy duty.



Signature Series.webp


1234.webp
 
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Okay, I guess I just had trouble finding those numbers listed in their actual warranty statements. I see it referenced in places but is it actually part of the official warranty?
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Okay, I guess I just had trouble finding those numbers listed in their actual warranty statements. I see it referenced in places but is it actually part of the official warranty?


Here is a link to all their warranties: https://www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx
Here is a link to the lubricants warranty PDF: https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1363.pdf

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AMSOIL Limited Warranty - Lubricants
(for the 50 United States, the District of Columbia and Canada)

WHAT THIS WARRANTY COVERS:
AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin ("AMSOIL" or "AMSOIL INC.") hereby warrants to the Consumer that, at the time of sale, its lubricants
are free of defective materials, design and workmanship and are fit for use according to the written recommendations of AMSOIL
and in applications for which one or more of the specifications set forth in the product data bulletins and product labels are specified.

WHAT THIS LIMITED WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:
• AMSOIL lubricants for which AMSOIL offers a separate, specific warranty.
• AMSOIL lubricants that are not (1) packaged by AMSOIL or an authorized AMSOIL packager, and (2) sold by AMSOIL or an
authorized AMSOIL Dealer.
• AMSOIL lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized for use by
AMSOIL.
• AMSOIL lubricants contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL facilities or premises. Examples include contamination due to improper
handling, re-packaging, storage or filtration and contamination from dirty dispensing equipment.
• AMSOIL lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment. Examples of mechanically deficient equipment include flawed or
defective equipment due to abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, previous damage or improper modification, including use of
components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners.
• Failure of equipment due to not following original equipment manufacturer (hereinafter, "OEM") recommendations for warranty
coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants, or any other
pre-existing condition or OEM defect unrelated to the use of AMSOIL.
• Repair or replacement of equipment because of normal wear.
• Failure of equipment when AMSOIL lubricants are not used in strict accordance with either the written recommendations of
AMSOIL or the OEM for warranty coverage. The Consumer is solely responsible for determining a product's merchantability or
fitness ("suitability") for a particular purpose and assumes all risks and liabilities when used other than in strict accordance with
either the written recommendations of AMSOIL or the OEM for warranty coverage.
• AMSOIL lubricants used in any manned aircraft or aviation application.
• AMSOIL lubricants that have been used for the purposes of racing.
• Any allegedly defective AMSOIL lubricant for which a reasonable sample has not been preserved.
• Damages if the Consumer does not send or make the parts requested available for inspection by AMSOIL or its insurer.

WHAT AMSOIL WILL DO TO CORRECT A COVERED DEFECT:
If the AMSOIL lubricant is defective in materials, design and workmanship, AMSOIL will (1) replace the defective lubricant; and (2) at the
option and cost of AMSOIL, repair or replace components damaged by the defective AMSOIL lubricant. REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT,
AS PROVIDED IN THIS PARAGRAPH, IS THE CONSUMER'S SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY UNDER THIS LIMITED WARRANTY.
WHAT IS REQUIRED TO MAKE A CLAIM:
• AMSOIL requires an eight (8) ounce representative oil sample taken from the failed equipment. Such sample must be placed into
a clean, dry container for warranty claims filed with AMSOIL.
• If there is engine damage and the vehicle is under warranty, file a warranty claim with the OEM. If the OEM denies the warranty claim,
the Consumer must provide a written copy of the OEM's warranty denial if such denial is based on use of an AMSOIL lubricant.
• Notify AMSOIL at (715) 399-8324 immediately. In the alternative, you may mail a claim notice, along with the OEM denial to
AMSOIL INC., ATTN: Technical Services, 1 AMSOIL Center, Superior, WI 54880, postmarked within 30 days of failure or alleged
defect.
• Keep the failed parts for inspection by AMSOIL, unless given to the OEM.
• Mail, at your expense, the following items to AMSOIL INC., ATTN: Technical Services, 1 AMSOIL Center, Superior, WI 54880:
- The eight (8) ounce representative oil sample (see above).
- Documentation describing the make, model and year of equipment, total accumulated miles and/or hours and duty cycle or
service environment.
- Equipment or vehicle maintenance history documentation including miles or hours at the time of AMSOIL lubricant installation,
general equipment repairs and oil analysis results if available.
- Proof of purchase for AMSOIL lubricant (if available).
- Batch number from oil container or Certificate of Analysis (if available).
- The OEM warranty denial, if applicable, and claim notice (if not previously provided).
• If your claim is approved, you will be reimbursed this mailing expense.

AFTER A CLAIM IS FILED:
• You must cooperate with the AMSOIL investigation of the claim and provide the information reasonably requested by AMSOIL.
• If your claim is paid by AMSOIL or its insurer, an attempt may be made by AMSOIL to recover those amounts from the OEM. If this
occurs, you may be asked to provide further information pertaining to the failure and must cooperate with AMSOIL or its insurer in
the recovery process.
 
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by StevieC
I will say this though... Where Amsoil Signature Series shines over other oils is extended drain capability. If the average user is using it for a regular OCI of 10K miles or less it has no benefit over quality name brand shelf oils.

How long could I run their Signature Series oil in my Sienna and still get the benefit of the Amsoil warranty? Just so I can directly compare against ExxonMobil's warranty of 15,000 miles for their EP product.

Lets review the up wording.
 
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