It's a bad time to be a TDI owner

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
JohnnyMerrill, this forum is rife with anti-environmentalists. They have trouble understanding chemistry-biology, thats all.


First you have to understand math before you apply your knowledge of chemistry and biology. Passenger diesel vehicles amount for about 2% of all passenger vehicles. Of that 2% of diesels, the VW models that emit more NOx is but a fraction of the total number. In other words, their overall influence in NOx emissions is extremely small.
I bet the EPA's cuffaffle with a certain mine, that mysteriously is off major media coverage, has a much bigger impact on the environment than this.
Can you apply your superior chemical and biological knowledge to that event and estimate the damage to the environment?

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
JohnnyMerrill, this forum is rife with anti-environmentalists. They have trouble understanding chemistry-biology, thats all.


First you have to understand math before you apply your knowledge of chemistry and biology. Passenger diesel vehicles amount for about 2% of all passenger vehicles. Of that 2% of diesels, the VW models that emit more NOx is but a fraction of the total number. In other words, their overall influence in NOx emissions is extremely small.
I bet the EPA's cuffaffle with a certain mine, that mysteriously is off major media coverage, has a much bigger impact on the environment than this.
Can you apply your superior chemical and biological knowledge to that event and estimate the damage to the environment?


Don't forget to multiply your numbers by 40x which is how much times the emission limit that VW was spewing out.

I guess I'm going to go dump a barrel of chemicals in my back yard. I mean I'm only one person and my property is insignificant to the total area of the US. Right?

I don't understand how anyone can justify what the greedy [censored] of VW did.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
First you have to understand math before you apply your knowledge of chemistry and biology. Passenger diesel vehicles amount for about 2% of all passenger vehicles. Of that 2% of diesels, the VW models that emit more NOx is but a fraction of the total number. In other words, their overall influence in NOx emissions is extremely small.

Agreed. Here is an article about emissions from cargo ships. It's a little bit old, but I highly doubt there have been a lot of changes, given that there is no EPA or Environment Canada dealing with such things as their whims suit them.

 

[KrisZ]

Good article,
Some quotes from it since most people will not read it:
Quote:
Confidential data from maritime industry insiders based on engine size and the quality of fuel typically used by ships and cars shows that just 15 of the world's biggest ships may now emit as much pollution as all the world's 760m cars. Low-grade ship bunker fuel (or fuel oil) has up to 2,000 times the sulphur content of diesel fuel used in US and European automobiles.


Quote:
The world's biggest container ships have 109,000 horsepower engines which weigh 2,300 tons.

Each ship expects to operate 24hrs a day for about 280 days a year

There are 90,000 ocean-going cargo ships

Shipping is responsible for 18-30% of all the world's nitrogen oxide (NOx) pollution and 9% of the global sulphur oxide (SOx) pollution.


But it is much easier to find an imagined boogey man and hammer on the "issue"

Now, I'm not saying that VW should not be fined or get off the hook. They should pay the penalties and all, but the whole ordeal is simply a non issue if you look at it from the global scale. We have much, much bigger pollution sources, China, India and other developing countries being the biggest of them all. But it is all conveniently not being discussed. Same thing goes for the rare earth metal mining for all those "green" car batteries.

It is simply a huge charade and people are bing played for the fools. What's sad is that most people cheer it on and even defend the actions.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
But it is much easier to find an imagined boogey man and hammer on the "issue"

Now, I'm not saying that VW should not be fined or get off the hook. They should pay the penalties and all, but the whole ordeal is simply a non issue if you look at it from the global scale. We have much, much bigger pollution sources, China, India and other developing countries being the biggest of them all. But it is all conveniently not being discussed. Same thing goes for the rare earth metal mining for all those "green" car batteries.

It is simply a huge charade and people are bing played for the fools. What's sad is that most people cheer it on and even defend the actions.

What can USA do to reduce emission in those developing countries ? Can we pass a law requiring those countries to reduce harmful smog ?

USA can only have emission control laws for products sold in America, not Canada nor Mexico.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
We have much, much bigger pollution sources, China, India and other developing countries being the biggest of them all. But it is all conveniently not being discussed. Same thing goes for the rare earth metal mining for all those "green" car batteries.


What you said is true, however cars still cause LOCAL pollution.

Just because China and India are polluting their own countries doesn't mean we should as well.

The air quality in California has improved a lot since stricter regulations.

If everyone drove diesels the air would be much more polluted.

In Europe where people love their diesels, some cities like Paris are considering banning them because of the pollution.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
What can USA do to reduce emission in those developing countries ? Can we pass a law requiring those countries to reduce harmful smog ?

USA can only have emission control laws for products sold in America, not Canada nor Mexico.


So when your president says he's gonna fight and stop global warming/climate change he only means US? Is that it? You guys are going to do it just for US boarders?

US can do a lot, but it's not in the interest of big capitalism that has crept in in most aspects of our lives, whether we know it or not. For once, we could stop the huge consumption of cheap Chinese goods and bring the manufacturing and control of emissions here. This alone would make a tremendous impact because, again, no one talks about the real issue here and it is ever increasing appetite to consume, consume, consume.
My wife is a flight attendant, and last year she's flown to Beijing. On the way from the airport to the hotel, about a 30 minute drive by a cab, both sides of the road were lined up with shipping containers stacked several containers high. THE ENTIRE WAY! Just imagine how many containers that is, and it is only the tip of the iceberg.

Everybody likes to talk the big game, especially in the media, but the problem is that it is all done to extract even more money from the rest of us. That is the only goal.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
..... In other words, their overall influence in NOx emissions is extremely small. ....


I guess I'm going to go dump a barrel of chemicals in my back yard. I mean I'm only one person and my property is insignificant to the total area of the US. Right?


Nate1979 just hit it out of the park. Where were you when the Cubs needed you?

I leave the determination of pollution toxicity effects to scientists who know, thats all.

 

[Bamaro]

A friend of mine who is a 2015 TDI owner just said that VW is giving $2000 trade in assistance. Any truth to this? Dont know where he got this from, I haven't seen it myself.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
A friend of mine who is a 2015 TDI owner just said that VW is giving $2000 trade in assistance. Any truth to this? Dont know where he got this from, I haven't seen it myself.
No, it's $2000 off a current VW if you currently own a VW.

If you want to trade in a 2009-2015 TDI they will only pay 50% of the Kelly Blue Book trade in value for the car.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
If you want to trade in a 2009-2015 TDI they will only pay 50% of the Kelly Blue Book trade in value for the car.

Interesting... I know VW is now paying the dealerships cash to store the new TDIs or any TDI they can't sell on their lots or elsewhere. So when a dealership pays only 0.5 KBB value to a current owner trading one in, they stand to make a bunch of money when the recall fix (also payed for by VW!) finally comes in and the cars sell again for maybe like 0.8 KBB. Nice profit scheme.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111


If everyone drove diesels the air would be much more polluted.

In Europe where people love their diesels, some cities like Paris are considering banning them because of the pollution.


Yes, but have you seen the age and condition of cars in the big vities like Paris/Brussels/London?

the pollution is comong from old bangers before the euro regulations came into being, without EGR or DPf. And the euro 1 + 2 compliant cars had easily defeatable egr systems. These are the engines that seems to be the most trouble free aswell in city use, as they won't throw a CEL if the emissions system isn't working.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111


If everyone drove diesels the air would be much more polluted.

In Europe where people love their diesels, some cities like Paris are considering banning them because of the pollution.


Yes, but have you seen the age and condition of cars in the big vities like Paris/Brussels/London?

the pollution is comong from old bangers before the euro regulations came into being, without EGR or DPf. And the euro 1 + 2 compliant cars had easily defeatable egr systems. These are the engines that seems to be the most trouble free aswell in city use, as they won't throw a CEL if the emissions system isn't working.


That's nothing compared to the global pollution problem solved by Colorado State University:
http://www.colostate.edu/features/envirofit.aspx

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111


If everyone drove diesels the air would be much more polluted.

In Europe where people love their diesels, some cities like Paris are considering banning them because of the pollution.


Yes, but have you seen the age and condition of cars in the big vities like Paris/Brussels/London?

the pollution is comong from old bangers before the euro regulations came into being, without EGR or DPf. And the euro 1 + 2 compliant cars had easily defeatable egr systems. These are the engines that seems to be the most trouble free aswell in city use, as they won't throw a CEL if the emissions system isn't working.


That's nothing compared to the global pollution problem solved by Colorado State University:
http://www.colostate.edu/features/envirofit.aspx


Been there, seen it, smelled it... Spent some time in the Philippines...

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Been there, seen it, smelled it... Spent some time in the Philippines...


I've never been overseas to inhale. Dr. Bryan Wilson, who took action to get those fuel injection kits out to 3rd world countries, should be canonized, funded to the tune of $10 billion worldwide dollars to fight that problem, and recognized more by Obama/Congress as a solution.
"The pollutants, known as the Asian Brown Cloud, can travel halfway around the world in one week, impacting health, agriculture and climate. " --- http://www.colostate.edu/features/envirofit.aspx

I mention this because it actually is much greater than this VW scandal. There are 4 billion 3rd world country people doing this.

 

[Luis_G]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
If you want to trade in a 2009-2015 TDI they will only pay 50% of the Kelly Blue Book trade in value for the car.

Interesting... I know VW is now paying the dealerships cash to store the new TDIs or any TDI they can't sell on their lots or elsewhere. So when a dealership pays only 0.5 KBB value to a current owner trading one in, they stand to make a bunch of money when the recall fix (also payed for by VW!) finally comes in and the cars sell again for maybe like 0.8 KBB. Nice profit scheme.


Exactly.
VW is the business to make money. Cheating, or letting their customer swallow the loss.

I am appalled but not even a bit surprised that people here are already looking to cheat emissions by flashing to the illegal F/W then switching back when it's time to test.

Some people are hella cheap to buy, it's pretty sad.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Been there, seen it, smelled it... Spent some time in the Philippines...


I've never been overseas to inhale. Dr. Bryan Wilson, who took action to get those fuel injection kits out to 3rd world countries, should be canonized, funded to the tune of $10 billion worldwide dollars to fight that problem, and recognized more by Obama/Congress as a solution.
"The pollutants, known as the Asian Brown Cloud, can travel halfway around the world in one week, impacting health, agriculture and climate. " --- http://www.colostate.edu/features/envirofit.aspx

I mention this because it actually is much greater than this VW scandal. There are 4 billion 3rd world country people doing this.


Not really... there's maybe one household in 25 that has a 2-stroke bike and uses it to make a living from the 24 others that don't have a bike...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Been there, seen it, smelled it... Spent some time in the Philippines...

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
I've never been overseas to inhale. Dr. Bryan Wilson, who took action to get those fuel injection kits out to 3rd world countries, should be canonized, funded to the tune of $10 billion worldwide dollars to fight that problem, and recognized more by Obama/Congress as a solution.
"The pollutants, known as the Asian Brown Cloud, can travel halfway around the world in one week, impacting health, agriculture and climate. " --- http://www.colostate.edu/features/envirofit.aspx

I mention this because it actually is much greater than this VW scandal. There are 4 billion 3rd world country people doing this.

According to the article you're linked to, there are 50 million inefficient 2-stroke vehicles polluting the air in Asia.

Where did you find 4-billion people in 3rd world countries doing this kind of pollution ?

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Where did you find 4-billion people in 3rd world countries doing this kind of pollution ?

People who use those vehicles. Duhhhh.....
They are used for taxis, families, extended families, etc.

 

[HTSS_TR]

People who bought and used VW vehicles that were cheated/violated US and other countries emission laws should be blamed ? If some of those vehicles were used as taxi then who ever had a ride in those taxis should be accountable for polluting the air ?

The ones should be blamed are the manufactures of those vehicles, not the one who bought and use it as transportation, especially the paying customers of those polluting vehicles.

Your logic is so weirdo, blame the end users instead of the manufactures.