It's a bad time to be a TDI owner

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Originally Posted By: pottymouth
VW will be fine. The company will ride this out with help from the German government if needed. Car buyers have short memories.

The real threat to VW is that Marchionne will see tham as a bargain due to the drop in share price. He really wants GM but may try to take VW as a consolation prize.


I'm wondering how the general public will take all this. Dealers are reporting about-usual sales volumes for the first month after the scandal broke the news, partly of course due to the $2,000 loyalty cash from VW for current owners of VWs on a new one. As we know the gas cars/SUVs are not affected, so that accounts for all the sales activity now. People are not worried.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
That other companies have cheated in the past doesnt make it ok for VW to do so. This doesnt add anything to the conversation and just serves to try and distract from the topic.


What exactly is the topic? Oh, I forgot, it's baseless fear mangling and spreading of paranoia.

Those that worry about the resale value, should have their heads examined because nobody can guarantee a resale value, just like nobody can guarantee a stock value or pretty much all other aspects of our lives. And if they're looking to sue the automaker, it will serve them right if all the money is taken by the lawyers and they end up with a free oil change coupon.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
That other companies have cheated in the past doesnt make it ok for VW to do so. This doesnt add anything to the conversation and just serves to try and distract from the topic.


What exactly is the topic? Oh, I forgot, it's baseless fear mangling and spreading of paranoia.

Those that worry about the resale value, should have their heads examined because nobody can guarantee a resale value, just like nobody can guarantee a stock value or pretty much all other aspects of our lives. And if they're looking to sue the automaker, it will serve them right if all the money is taken by the lawyers and they end up with a free oil change coupon.


Its good to cite the precedents of the past to put all this into context! Keep them coming for comparison purposes. There was the old diesel trucks cheating somebody cited, and then the GM-airconditioner one I'd forgotten about. Perspective is a good thing.

About the drop in resale value, Yes VW is at least partially liable here because this is different. The drop in resale value is due to wrongdoing on their part, not merely incompetence or syle/market forces. Thats the way these kinds of class action lawsuits work, looking for unethical behavior as the cause.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
More likely: many owners will either not do the recall at alll (I wouldn't), or will reinstall the old ECU program after the "fix".


Ahh, all the states have to do is query the VIN #'s of all TDI's registered in their state, and not allow the owners to re-register until they prove they have had the emisssions fixed, and note I wouldnt count on states ignoring this with the treehugger attitude.

Owners might buy 1 year but at some point the state EPAs will insist on proof of the fix and compliance.

Best thing would be for the Lawsuits and Feds force VW to buy back and then crush all the TDI's so they cant go back on the road, this would make the owners whole and solve the problem.
 
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
More likely: many owners will either not do the recall at alll (I wouldn't), or will reinstall the old ECU program after the "fix".


Ahh, all the states have to do is query the VIN #'s of all TDI's registered in their state, and not allow the owners to re-register until they prove they have had the emisssions fixed, and note I wouldnt count on states ignoring this with the treehugger attitude.

Owners might buy 1 year but at some point the state EPAs will insist on proof of the fix and compliance.

Best thing would be for the Lawsuits and Feds force VW to buy back and then crush all the TDI's so they cant go back on the road, this would make the owners whole and solve the problem.



What makes you think that all TDI owners would want to give up their car? It remains to be seen what remedy VW will come up with for this. It's all speculation at this point as to how performance, reliability and mileage will be affected. I'm willing to bet that a majority of TDI owners would still want their car even with a minor drop in mileage and/or power.

Also, how would the TDI owners be compensated? They have already received the use of the car for however many miles they have driven. If someone has a TDI with 200K miles, how much money would they be paid to turn their car in now? Would they be forced to surrender their car against their will?

I actually expect values on lower mileage TDI's to begin climbing. You can't buy one new right now and there is a hardcore group of enthusiasts that won't care a bit about the emission issues as long as they can get another one. Supply goes down, prices go up. Look at how used car prices rose after cash for clunkers. I don't see TDI owners doing bad at all in the long run. The cars will be fixed, enthusiasts will buy them on the used market and tune them back to wherever they were before - or worse.
 
Many states will do nothing. Iowa doesn't even do any emissions testing or demand verification of emissions compliance when a vehicle is sold. VW owners in Iowa could just ignore all of this hoopla and continue on like nothing is different. It would be a significant stretch to contemplate Iowa, for one, would even run a VIN and check for repair or upgrade on emissions junk. Depends on where you live.

I would venture, at least in Iowa or similar state with similar emissions requirements, that these "faulty" VW autos will command a higher price if they have not been repaired.
 
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
More likely: many owners will either not do the recall at alll (I wouldn't), or will reinstall the old ECU program after the "fix".

So the company cheated and now the customers will follow in their footsteps.
31.gif



I'm pretty sure a lot of their customers will do just that.
 
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
More likely: many owners will either not do the recall at alll (I wouldn't), or will reinstall the old ECU program after the "fix".


Ahh, all the states have to do is query the VIN #'s of all TDI's registered in their state, and not allow the owners to re-register until they prove they have had the emisssions fixed, and note I wouldnt count on states ignoring this with the treehugger attitude.

Owners might buy 1 year but at some point the state EPAs will insist on proof of the fix and compliance.

Best thing would be for the Lawsuits and Feds force VW to buy back and then crush all the TDI's so they cant go back on the road, this would make the owners whole and solve the problem.



What makes you think that all TDI owners would want to give up their car? It remains to be seen what remedy VW will come up with for this. It's all speculation at this point as to how performance, reliability and mileage will be affected. I'm willing to bet that a majority of TDI owners would still want their car even with a minor drop in mileage and/or power.

Also, how would the TDI owners be compensated? They have already received the use of the car for however many miles they have driven. If someone has a TDI with 200K miles, how much money would they be paid to turn their car in now? Would they be forced to surrender their car against their will?

I actually expect values on lower mileage TDI's to begin climbing. You can't buy one new right now and there is a hardcore group of enthusiasts that won't care a bit about the emission issues as long as they can get another one. Supply goes down, prices go up. Look at how used car prices rose after cash for clunkers. I don't see TDI owners doing bad at all in the long run. The cars will be fixed, enthusiasts will buy them on the used market and tune them back to wherever they were before - or worse.



Owner wont have the choice, the TDI is out of compliance, guess you have never dealt with State and Federal Regulators? In my industry they are a total PITA and look to hang anyone.

States can easily identify the TDI from VIN# on registration and block the registration so it cant be re-registered until proof is has been properly fixed. Do you think California is going to sit back and just allow the owners to blow off the "fix"? All the other Northeast states will follow suit.

Per compensation, best thing would be for VW to buy the cars back at market value(before the truth came out) and give the customers an extra couple grand to make them whole.
 
My question is, could you use an aftermarket programmer and save the ecm programming before getting it reflashed, then reinstall that ecm programming?
 
At this point, if I owned a TDI, I wouldn't care ... yet.

Once they install a Urea system on it, I'd ditch it. I don't need the car to randomly disable itself.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
At this point, if I owned a TDI, I wouldn't care ... yet.

Once they install a Urea system on it, I'd ditch it. I don't need the car to randomly disable itself.


They don't "randomly disable". If you ignore the warnings to fill it - it will eventually not start.

And the ones with ADBlue typically get better fuel mileage, if they can properly implement that on the older ones they will have relatively little pushback on it, particularly if they fill them at no cost.

And to the original post - it might be a bad time to SELL a TDI, but owning one isn't an issue.
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
My question is, could you use an aftermarket programmer and save the ecm programming before getting it reflashed, then reinstall that ecm programming?


Yes...and you can also store the "emissions compliant version" to switch back to just before the test.
 
VW seemed the only one out there with a use case/recipie for other car makers to push a successful diesel in the USA.

I think this VW bit will set diesel acceptance back once again like the 1980's domestic effort which was an absolute mess with those junk engines they made for cars and still in folks memories. My guess is Chevy Cruze diesel(never seen one) goes away given its paltry uptake(2%) compared to VW which had 25%.
 
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Owner wont have the choice, the TDI is out of compliance, guess you have never dealt with State and Federal Regulators? In my industry they are a total PITA and look to hang anyone.

States can easily identify the TDI from VIN# on registration and block the registration so it cant be re-registered until proof is has been properly fixed. Do you think California is going to sit back and just allow the owners to blow off the "fix"? All the other Northeast states will follow suit.

Per compensation, best thing would be for VW to buy the cars back at market value(before the truth came out) and give the customers an extra couple grand to make them whole.


What the state CAN do is not always what the state WILL do. No government agency halted the registration of the diesels trucks that were caught doing very much the same thing in the '90's as VW has done now. California roads were still littered with Caterpillar, Cummins and International powered rigs. In fact, the EPA more recently allowed Navistar to continue building and selling diesel heavy truck engines that could not meet NOx standards as long as the company paid a couple grand penalty per truck.

Too much money at stake here. The EPA will get a couple billion out of this, CARB will get a taste along with a few others and all will carry on. As long as the right agencies get paid, these cars will remain happily belching NOx up and down the PCH.

Top it all off with the likelihood that most TDI owners will likely be perfectly content with keeping their car (emissions fix or not) and you'll have a hard time pulling them off the road. If you want a diesel car and can't get a new one from VW, what good does getting the FMV of your used car going to do for you? Not a lot of other options in the US, and VW owners tend to be illogically loyal. What is someone going to buy with the FMV of a 8 year old Golf TDI plus 2 grand? Now they have to pony up another 10 grand for a Cruze diesel or a gas powered car? As previously stated, we don't even know what the proposed fix will be and how that will impact any of the car's characteristics. I simply find the suggestion that all these cars need to be destroyed to be wildly over reactive and not serving the best interests of their owners.
 
Those worried about resale value are rightfully concerned. Doest matter if the source is real or imaged. Simply being part of the scandal hurts the cars imagined.

Remember the Audi 5000? the resale value of that car plummeted overnight because of a perceived vs real problem.

Because euro drivers do allot more heel and toe driving the pedals were mounted closer together than your average Buick, and idiots would stand on the accelerator vs brake claiming the car "just takes off" while the brakes fail at the same time - and then after the crash the brake and acceleration system magically repairs themselves for investigators.

Audi proved it was all operator error - but the car got slaughtered in resale value.

They should also be concerned because they purchased a car that performed one way - and will now have a car with less performance.



UD
 
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Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
JohnnyMerrill, this forum is rife with anti-environmentalists. They have trouble understanding chemistry-biology, thats all.


No, it's more that they simply want their cars to run properly. I deal with the emission diesels every day, and "dreadful" is being kind. (We had one regen for two hours today...and the stupid light is still on.)
 
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