It appears the bridge is burning for Toyota as wel

[jsharp]

Originally Posted By: Ed_T
"But listening to the engine scream after the auto trans pauses, then eventually finds the right gear is really annoying. Worse is its need to downshift, sometimes 2 gears just to maintain 70 MPH on central Illinois hills on the Interstate. It's not like we have any tough grades around here.

The Camry 4cyl would be a great engine in a light manual transmission sports car. It's completely wrong for an automatic transmission sedan."

The fix for those 'flaring' transmissions has been out for quite awhile. Some trannies were replaced.

There is a reflash for that engine that greatly improves output.

Perhaps your daughter's car should visit a dealership.


I was aware of that but I don't know if she's taken the car in. I agree that it should help the car in city driving but I don't see how it could fix the problems on the highway. Those appear to be a simple case of not enough torque to pull the higher gears under even moderate load.

 

[kd5byb]

Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Am I the only one around here who hasn't had any issue with their American cars?


You tell me if I'd have issues or not:

I've got a 1997 Mustang GT 'vert with 40k miles. I've replaced the shocks (originals leaked at 7k miles), the turn signal stalk needs replacing, and it needs it's third alignment in the past four years due to uneven tire wear.

I had a 1995 Ranger that went 114k miles. When I got rid of it, I'd done brakes, the radio wouldn't turn off, the key beeper only beeped with no key in the ignition, I had to have the brights on to wash the windshield, and the front tires were cupping badly, and it had an occasional part-throttle miss at speed.

Seems like I have had "issues."

Contrast with: I have a 2002 Mitsu Lancer with 90k miles. Did front brakes and timing belt at 70k.

Seems like it has not had "issues." Sure, time will tell. I'll drive it until the wheels fall off, so stay tuned.

Ranger got replaced with an '07 Tundra that now has 30k. I've changed the oil and that's it. It's the nicest thing I've ever owned and possibly the nicest truck I've ever driven.

Initially I wanted a Ford, as I'd considered myself a Ford guy. But I couldn't find a four-door F150 that was between the low-end "government rubber floor" model or the uber-loaded $42k jobs. It was either cat food or lobster when I wanted ground sirloin.

Ended up looking at the Tundra. Huh - more power, bigger brakes, six speed auto, more backseat room, and I actually could find one that fit my budget. Game on, Toyota.

Sorry Ford, you didn't have what I wanted. Will I say that Ford trucks are junk? Heck no!

later,
b

 

[BuickGN]

For every bad story, there's a good one.

Friend has a 4.6L Mustang with 140,000 on the clock.

Original front brakes to 120,000.

No maintenance except for the rare oil change.

It does leak oil, hasn't had a change in over 80,000 miles, he adds a few quarts when it starts feeling sluggish.

Misshifted at 120,000 miles and buried the tach. No engine damage but it killed the original clutch. Not the car's fault.

This thing is truly abused. No oil changes and he drives it very hard all the time. I feel sorry for the car.

The only thing I can think of that has ever gone wrong is recently he fired it up, revved it to 4,000rpm because it was getting a slight vibration, and I watched the balancer take off from under the car, cross the street, hit the curb and bounce about 10 feet in the air. Was it the car's fault or the thousands of powershifts over the years?

 

[INMY01TA]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
The only thing I can think of that has ever gone wrong is recently he fired it up, revved it to 4,000rpm because it was getting a slight vibration, and I watched the balancer take off from under the car, cross the street, hit the curb and bounce about 10 feet in the air.
Balancer??

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: INMY01TA
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
The only thing I can think of that has ever gone wrong is recently he fired it up, revved it to 4,000rpm because it was getting a slight vibration, and I watched the balancer take off from under the car, cross the street, hit the curb and bounce about 10 feet in the air.
Balancer??


The outer part separated and came off. Came out from under the car and picked up speed as it went across the yard and across the street. After it was all over, it was one of the funniest things I've seen. I'm just glad there were no parked cars on the road.

 

[Ed_T]

Originally Posted By: jsharp
Originally Posted By: Ed_T
"But listening to the engine scream after the auto trans pauses, then eventually finds the right gear is really annoying. Worse is its need to downshift, sometimes 2 gears just to maintain 70 MPH on central Illinois hills on the Interstate. It's not like we have any tough grades around here.

The Camry 4cyl would be a great engine in a light manual transmission sports car. It's completely wrong for an automatic transmission sedan."

The fix for those 'flaring' transmissions has been out for quite awhile. Some trannies were replaced.

There is a reflash for that engine that greatly improves output.

Perhaps your daughter's car should visit a dealership.


I was aware of that but I don't know if she's taken the car in. I agree that it should help the car in city driving but I don't see how it could fix the problems on the highway. Those appear to be a simple case of not enough torque to pull the higher gears under even moderate load.


Wow. Every Camry I've driven (2002, 2007, 2008, 2009), all 4-bangers with automatics, have enough power under all conditions, whether accelerating through the ratios, or pulling top gear.

I'm not sure what your daughter's car is suffering from, but it might need some diagnostic work.

Millions of Camry owners can't *all* be wrong. Maybe your daughter got a "lemon". Maybe she lives at a high elevation. Is she the one complaining?

 

[jsharp]

Originally Posted By: Ed_T


Wow. Every Camry I've driven (2002, 2007, 2008, 2009), all 4-bangers with automatics, have enough power under all conditions, whether accelerating through the ratios, or pulling top gear.

I'm not sure what your daughter's car is suffering from, but it might need some diagnostic work.

Millions of Camry owners can't *all* be wrong. Maybe your daughter got a "lemon". Maybe she lives at a high elevation. Is she the one complaining?


We're roughly 700 feet above sea level here in the prairie and it's flat. It's not Kansas, but it's still flat.

The car doesn't lack power, it lacks torque and because of that the transmission is busy. I seriously doubt it's different from all the others they've built. She's not a car person and doesn't seem to notice since it doesn't lose speed or run out of HP. I just find it ridiculous that it can't pull a small hill here in the flatlands without downshifting.

All the people that bought those cars aren't "wrong." They're decent cars and I don't think anyone has said they aren't. I just don't find them all that superior to some other cars I've driven, her older Taurus in particular. That was my only point.

 

[brianl703]

Turn off overdrive, as suggested in the owner's manual for driving in hilly terrain.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Turn off overdrive, as suggested in the owner's manual for driving in hilly terrain.


Sort of a silly solution though

I could drive the hills of the Fredericton area in New Brunswick in my 'stang in overdrive without ever down-shifting....

It even takes a VERY big hill to make my Townie down-shift, and that car is in excess of 4,000lbs.

 

[brianl703]

I don't need to downshift my 'stang to go up the hills on I95 between Woodbridge, VA and Fredericksburg, VA either (seems like you cross a 40 foot contour interval line every 1000 to 2000 feet on that highway; that's a 4% grade in some places)...and it has 2.73 gears with a T5Z. (About 1000RPM at 50MPH in 5th gear).

For that matter, my mom's Malibu Classic with the 4-banger doesn't need to downshift for those hills, either.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
I don't need to downshift my 'stang to go up the hills on I95 between Woodbridge, VA and Fredericksburg, VA either (seems like you cross a 40 foot contour interval line every 1000 to 2000 feet on that highway; that's a 4% grade in some places)...and it has 2.73 gears with a T5Z. (About 1000RPM at 50MPH in 5th gear).

For that matter, my mom's Malibu Classic with the 4-banger doesn't need to downshift for those hills, either.


Exactly

IIRC, ~100Km/h was 1,200RPM in the 'stang..... That was with 3.08's.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Ben Boyle
Absolutely, and if you ever find yourself at the Orphan Car Show in Ypsilanti or similar event I'll even take you on a complimentary BITOG ride.

The 2CV is an amazing car when you read about it, and the amount of engineering that went into something so simple is absolutely amazing.

The 2CV made a much greater mark on the world of the automobile than the Supra ever will.

I drive my 2CV 20,000 miles a year. And it's parked 3-4 months of the year!

 

[jsharp]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Turn off overdrive, as suggested in the owner's manual for driving in hilly terrain.


Great. So It'll only need to downshift one gear.

Are you familiar with the "hills" in central Illinois? They're not something a person from a truly hilly area would even notice. I'm talking about short sections of increased grade and things like interstate highway overpasses on what is basically flatland.

You'll need to go to Kansas or Utah to find flatter ground...

 

[brianl703]

Yea, I've driven in central Illinois before. Pretty much flat. I wouldn't expect a car to have to downshift to maintain speed on those grades. I've also looked at Google Terrain maps for central Illinois and it seems like you can drive for miles without crossing a contour line.

I was being a little facetious in my suggestion to turn off overdrive, but I bet if you took it to the dealer that's what they'd tell you to do.

 

[Ed_T]

Originally Posted By: jsharp
Originally Posted By: Ed_T


Wow. Every Camry I've driven (2002, 2007, 2008, 2009), all 4-bangers with automatics, have enough power under all conditions, whether accelerating through the ratios, or pulling top gear.

I'm not sure what your daughter's car is suffering from, but it might need some diagnostic work.

Millions of Camry owners can't *all* be wrong. Maybe your daughter got a "lemon". Maybe she lives at a high elevation. Is she the one complaining?


We're roughly 700 feet above sea level here in the prairie and it's flat. It's not Kansas, but it's still flat.

The car doesn't lack power, it lacks torque and because of that the transmission is busy. I seriously doubt it's different from all the others they've built. She's not a car person and doesn't seem to notice since it doesn't lose speed or run out of HP. I just find it ridiculous that it can't pull a small hill here in the flatlands without downshifting.

All the people that bought those cars aren't "wrong." They're decent cars and I don't think anyone has said they aren't. I just don't find them all that superior to some other cars I've driven, her older Taurus in particular. That was my only point.



Here's the 2007 Camry U.S. specs with the automatic:
2.4L 158 hp I4
158 @ 6000 RPM
161 @ 4000 RPM
City (mpg) 24
Highway (mpg) 33

Here's the 3.0 Vulcan specs from 2002 Taurus with auto:
3.0L 155 hp V6
155 @ 4900 RPM
185 @ 3950 RPM
City (mpg) 20
Highway (mpg) 28
EDIT: she had the OHC engine

I couldn't locate how flat the curves are, but I'd bet the Ford might win a stump-pulling contest.
EDIT: she had the OHC engine: WOULD WIN

Assuming that the advantages of greater: fuel mileage, reliability, resale value, overall greater economy, and perhaps peace-of-mind would exceed the 'annoyance' of a few extra downshifts, her choice of motor vehicle appears to be extremely logical and intelligent.

She should find a decent dealer and get the tranny flaring fixed once and for all. With proper servicing and care the vehicle should provide her with an extremely long and uneventful service life.

 

[jsharp]

Originally Posted By: Ed_T



Here's the 2007 Camry U.S. specs with the automatic:
2.4L 158 hp I4
158 @ 6000 RPM
161 @ 4000 RPM
City (mpg) 24
Highway (mpg) 33

Here's the 3.0 Vulcan specs from 2002 Taurus with auto:
3.0L 155 hp V6
155 @ 4900 RPM
185 @ 3950 RPM
City (mpg) 20
Highway (mpg) 28
EDIT: she had the OHC engine

I couldn't locate how flat the curves are, but I'd bet the Ford might win a stump-pulling contest.
EDIT: she had the OHC engine: WOULD WIN

Assuming that the advantages of greater: fuel mileage, reliability, resale value, overall greater economy, and perhaps peace-of-mind would exceed the 'annoyance' of a few extra downshifts, her choice of motor vehicle appears to be extremely logical and intelligent.

She should find a decent dealer and get the tranny flaring fixed once and for all. With proper servicing and care the vehicle should provide her with an extremely long and uneventful service life.


I doubt fixing the transmission flaring will give the car the 50 ft/lb or so of torque it's lacking at highway RPM in top gear. Or fix the driving position for me...

I'm sure the car will last just fine for her. But, I'm sure her Taurus would have too. Unlike the Grand Cherokee she had in between those two vehicles.

She'll probably buy something else long before it's an issue anyway. She trades cars for emotional reasons not because the trade is all that well thought out...

 

[jsharp]

From today's news -

Toyota, Honda lead declines in Dec. auto sales

DETROIT – Toyota and Honda's U.S. sales fell more than their U.S. competitors' in December, with Toyota's 37 percent decline and Honda's 35 percent drop showing the Japanese company's popular fuel-efficient models were little help as consumers steered clear of showrooms due to the dismal economy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090105/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_sales

Seems like things aren't so rosy in import-land either...

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: jsharp
I doubt fixing the transmission flaring will give the car the 50 ft/lb or so of torque it's lacking at highway RPM in top gear.


What speed is the engine turning at, say, 65MPH in top gear? I had a 2.5L V6 Contour and it was geared such that at 65MPH the engine was turning 3000RPM in 5th gear.

I almost never had to downshift to pass, let alone to go up any hills. It would actually set you back in your seat if you floored it at highway speeds in 5th gear.

I wonder if the Toyota has excessively tall gearing?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: jsharp
The Camry 4cyl would be a great engine in a light manual transmission sports car. It's completely wrong for an automatic transmission sedan.

Have "TSB-0068-08 5/21/08 ECM Calibration: Enhancement to Shifting Performance, Smoothness" performed at your local dealership. It's covered under the Federal emissions warranty.

It should greatly help with transmission behavior and hesitation at low speeds.

 

[rszappa1]

Yes you are right the bridge has begun to burn for Honda and Toyota but it has already burned down for GM and Chrysler and at least Honda and Toyota know how to put the fire out before the bridge is gone or should I say for GM and Chryler...the Bridge Loan that is.....