Is the Chevron gas THAT much better?

[y_p_w]

Chevron developed PEA, so they should know a thing or two about it. One would hope, anyway.

Chevron doesn't make PEA and never has. The big thing they did was test out different chemicals and find out if they were effective as fuel detergents. They have suppliers for the PEA they use in fuel additives.

They are a bunch of suppliers, but I believe the big ones are BASF and Huntsman. The primary purpose of polyetheramines is for curing epoxy resins. And of course BASF is pretty big in bulk detergent fuel additives themselves.

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https://products.basf.com/global/en/ci/30057551​

Polyetheramine D 400 is a curing agent primarily for epoxy systems. It has a low viscosity and contributes to a long pot life. Applications include coatings, adhesives, sealants, composites, electronics and construction.​

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Industries & Applications​

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Fuels and Transportation (1)​

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• Automotive

https://www.huntsman.com/about/performance-products​

Automotive and Transportation​

Our polyetheramines, ethyleneamines and maleic anhydride increase motor oil lubricity and collect deposits off engine surfaces where they can cause loss of efficiency and damage. Maleic anhydride is also a key building block of unsaturated polyester resins used to produce fiberglass for automobile bodies and boat hulls. Our polyurethane additives reduce foam odor and emissions in automotive applications, and we are one of the world’s largest producers of high-purity cyclic carbonates used in the production of lithium ion batteries for electric cars.​

You probably use something made with PEA on a daily basis. It's the hardening agent for most two-part epoxy glues.

https://patents.google.com/patent/JPH05156002A/en​

PURPOSE: To provide a polyetheramine compd. especially useful as a curing agent in an epoxy resin capable of providing an epoxy adhesive compsn. showing improved toughness and flexibility.​

 

[odie]

I try to fuel up exclusively at Chevron / Shell / ExxonMobil - those are my personal “best” based on how they advertise the quality of their fuel and they (generally) have nicer stations.

Sad because none of those can be found in this region .

 

[Carlostrece]

Tier One brands of gas are defineately better because they have more/better fuel injector cleaners and stabilizers. Some (perhaps all?) Tier One brands also have antiwear additives.

I personally think Shell is best because in addition to having excellent fuel injector cleaner and stabilizer, it also has very effective anti-wear additives. Google it.

My second preference is Chevron or Union 76, which are good. Those are the only 3 brand of Tier One gas locally available. So those are the only 3 that I researched a lot. I have seen online independent tests that showed Costco is another good choice. Costco gas is Tier One.

Google "tier one gas". Also Google "shell vs chevron" and "costco tier one gas" as well as any other brands available in your local area.

 

[BHopkins]

What people fail to get is that major oil company R&D teams formulate and test the additive package regardless of who they buy chemicals from …
This cocktail is added at loading in most cases …

Anyone recall these adds (they are one of the players):

View attachment 283553

I'm no English major, but shouldn't that read "We don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy, better."?

 

[Carlostrece]

Gas that is not Tier One has little or no fuel injector cleaners, less or no stabilizers, and no anti-wear additives. So you save $0.50 a gallon in the short term, but you'll lose more money later when your fuel injectors eventually start to clog.

Dirty injectors reduces gas mileage, torque, and power. Dirty injectors also increases fuel dilution of oil, which increases engine wear.

Removing and cleaning injectors might be economically worthwhile if you do it yourself and your time has little value, such as if you're unemployed, but it's still a headache.

If you're paying a technician to remove and clean injectors for you, then removing and cleaning injectors is too expensive and not worth it. It's better to have the technician replace the injectors with new ones, which is also expensive, but more worthwhile.

All these problems can be easily and cheaply prevented by having lots of good fuel injector cleaner in the gas you use. There's 2 ways you can have lots of good injector cleaner in your gas.

1) The convenient way to have good fuel injector cleaner (and stabilizer) in your gas is to buy Tier One gas (Shell, Chevron, U76, Costco, Exxon, Mobil, Texaco, & other Tier One brands) because Tier One gas has cleaner and stabilizer in it.

In the case of Shell gas, there's also very good antiwear additives in it. Probably Chevron, U76, and other Tier One gas also have antiwear additives.

2) The less convenient way to have good injector cleaner, stabilizer, and possibly antiwear additives is to buy bottles of fuel injector cleaner from autostore or Walmart. Then dump a bottle of it into gas tank right before you fill up with cheap offbrand non-Tier One gas. This is an effective (though inconvenient) solution if you buy a good brand of gas additive that actually works. I know the fuel additives made by Shell, Chevron, U76, Exxon, Mobil, Texaco (or any Tier One brand) actually work. So I'd recommend buying one of those to add to your cheap offbrand non Tier One gas. If you buy Lucas fuel additive or any other brand not made by a Tier One gas company, it might not do anything.

3) Option 3 is buy cheap offbrand non Tier One gas and don't bother adding a bottle of fuel additive injector cleaner. That will save money in the short term, but cost more in long term when injectors clog.

I suggest option 1. But Chevron, Shell, U76, Costco, or any brand of Tier One gas.

My favorite is Shell, followed by Chevron, followed by U76 or Costco.

 

[GSCJR]

I used to buy my gas at Costco when going to the store. Now, unless you get there an hour before the store opens, there are 12 or more cars in every line. Even worse, the gas station is just inside a main entrance, so cars back up into the street, and you can't get in or out of that entrance. Just a huge mess every day Sometimes the cars back up into the parking lot aisles, so people can't get out. Yes, much cheaper, but not worth the zoo anymore.

+1

 

[kschachn]

Gas that is not Tier One has little or no fuel injector cleaners, less or no stabilizers, and no anti-wear additives. So you save $0.50 a gallon in the short term, but you'll lose more money later when your fuel injectors eventually start to clog.

Dirty injectors reduces gas mileage, torque, and power. Dirty injectors also increases fuel dilution of oil, which increases engine wear.

Removing and cleaning injectors might be economically worthwhile if you do it yourself and your time has little value, such as if you're unemployed, but it's still a headache.

If you're paying a technician to remove and clean injectors for you, then removing and cleaning injectors is too expensive and not worth it. It's better to have the technician replace the injectors with new ones, which is also expensive, but more worthwhile.

All these problems can be easily and cheaply prevented by having lots of good fuel injector cleaner in the gas you use. There's 2 ways you can have lots of good injector cleaner in your gas.

1) The convenient way to have good fuel injector cleaner (and stabilizer) in your gas is to buy Tier One gas (Shell, Chevron, U76, Costco, Exxon, Mobil, Texaco, & other Tier One brands) because Tier One gas has cleaner and stabilizer in it.

In the case of Shell gas, there's also very good antiwear additives in it. Probably Chevron, U76, and other Tier One gas also have antiwear additives.

2) The less convenient way to have good injector cleaner, stabilizer, and possibly antiwear additives is to buy bottles of fuel injector cleaner from autostore or Walmart. Then dump a bottle of it into gas tank right before you fill up with cheap offbrand non-Tier One gas. This is an effective (though inconvenient) solution if you buy a good brand of gas additive that actually works. I know the fuel additives made by Shell, Chevron, U76, Exxon, Mobil, Texaco (or any Tier One brand) actually work. So I'd recommend buying one of those to add to your cheap offbrand non Tier One gas. If you buy Lucas fuel additive or any other brand not made by a Tier One gas company, it might not do anything.

3) Option 3 is buy cheap offbrand non Tier One gas and don't bother adding a bottle of fuel additive injector cleaner. That will save money in the short term, but cost more in long term when injectors clog.

I suggest option 1. But Chevron, Shell, U76, Costco, or any brand of Tier One gas.

My favorite is Shell, followed by Chevron, followed by U76 or Costco.

What is Tier One gas? Is there some sort of certification agency for that?

And no gasoline is sold in the US without the additives you mention.

 

[CDNozzle]

What is Tier One gas? Is there some sort of certification agency for that?

And no gasoline is sold in the US without the additives you mention.

I think he's just referring to branded/unbranded gas, which are Tier 1 and 2, respectively. The unbranded gets the EPA required additive package, whilst the branded gets the name-brand (XOM, SHEL, CVX) concoction (both @ the fuel terminal).

 

[Jeep_Riot]

Why no mention of Marathon in this Tier 1 thread? Should I not be using it?

 

[CharBaby]

Why no mention of Marathon in this Tier 1 thread? Should I not be using it?

When I looked up TopTierFuels, Marathon was on the list.
https://www.toptiergas.com/gasoline-brands/

 

[Nukeman7]

What is Tier One gas? Is there some sort of certification agency for that?

And no gasoline is sold in the US without the additives you mention.

I think he's just referring to branded/unbranded gas, which are Tier 1 and 2, respectively. The unbranded gets the EPA required additive package, whilst the branded gets the name-brand (XOM, SHEL, CVX) concoction (both @ the fuel terminal).

He is referring to TOP TIER certified gas, but mistakenly called it Tier One.

 

[brandon9715]

My view is I am better off running whatever fuel is cheapest and using a PEA based cleaner once a year. Many vehicles have not worried about top tier and have collectively gone billions or trillions of miles. Joe Schmoe buys whatever is cheapest. Is Top Tier better? Probably. Does it impact engine life tangibly? Doubt it.

 

[Carlostrece]

He is referring to TOP TIER certified gas, but mistakenly called it Tier One.

Ya. I meant Top Tier.

 

[Carlostrece]

My view is I am better off running whatever fuel is cheapest and using a PEA based cleaner once a year. Many vehicles have not worried about top tier and have collectively gone billions or trillions of miles. Joe Schmoe buys whatever is cheapest. Is Top Tier better? Probably. Does it impact engine life tangibly? Doubt it.

The main benefit of Top Tier is you wouldn't need to buy and add a cleaner once a year or likely ever. Another benefit of Top Tier is more/better antiwear additives. Also more/better fuel stabilizers which is especially helpful to a car (like mine) that drives few miles. It takes 6-12 months for me to go through 1 tank of gas.

Buying cheap offbrand gas is fine if you add injector cleaner at least once in a while. I used to use cheap gas and add a bottle of fuel additive injector cleaner every 2nd or 3rd tank of gas, but that was inconvenient and not saving any money.

Prior to that, on my earlier cars, I used cheap offbrand gas and never added injector cleaner. After around 40K miles my injectors were dirty and needed to be cleaned or replaced. That was expensive.

So sure you can use cheaper gas instead of Top Tier, but you're not really saving any money because you'll either have to buy and add fuel additive, or clean or replace injectors. You're going to pay one way or another. There's no free lunch.

My preferred way is to buy Top Tier gas because it's the most convenient option.

Top Tier doesn't always cost more than cheap offbrand gas. I get 40 cents a gallon discount on Shell gas because I'm a Fred Meyer/Kroger premium member customer. Non premium members get 10-20 cents a gallon discount.

Safeway/Albertsons member customers get discounts on Chevron gas.

Costco members get discounts on Costco gas. Costco is Top Tier gas.

So for those who play their cards right, Top Tier gas can cost 20-30 cents less per gallon than offbrand gas, and with Top Tier you don't have to buy fuel additives nor clean or replace injectors. Cleaner injectors will mean better gas mileage and less fuel dilution.

 

[brandon9715]

The main benefit of Top Tier is you wouldn't need to buy and add a cleaner once a year or likely ever. Another benefit of Top Tier is more/better antiwear additives. Also more/better fuel stabilizers which is especially helpful to a car (like mine) that drives few miles. It takes 6-12 months for me to go through 1 tank of gas.

Buying cheap offbrand gas is fine if you add injector cleaner at least once in a while. I used to use cheap gas and add a bottle of fuel additive injector cleaner every 2nd or 3rd tank of gas, but that was inconvenient and not saving any money.

Prior to that, on my earlier cars, I used cheap offbrand gas and never added injector cleaner. After around 40K miles my injectors were dirty and needed to be cleaned or replaced. That was expensive.

So sure you can use cheaper gas instead of Top Tier, but you're not really saving any money because you'll either have to buy and add fuel additive, or clean or replace injectors. You're going to pay one way or another. There's no free lunch.

My preferred way is to buy Top Tier gas because it's the most convenient option.

Top Tier doesn't always cost more than cheap offbrand gas. I get 40 cents a gallon discount on Shell gas because I'm a Fred Meyer/Kroger premium member customer. Non premium members get 10-20 cents a gallon discount.

Safeway/Albertsons member customers get discounts on Chevron gas.

Costco members get discounts on Costco gas. Costco is Top Tier gas.

So for those who play their cards right, Top Tier gas can cost 20-30 cents less per gallon than offbrand gas, and with Top Tier you don't have to buy fuel additives nor clean or replace injectors. Cleaner injectors will mean better gas mileage and less fuel dilution.

I disagree. I spend $20-$30 per year on injector cleaner and have never had any issues. The rest of my family has never used injector cleaners at all and have never had issues. Most people I know never have injector issues. I’m saying all of this is really a non-issue to start with for the vast majority of people.

 

[Carlostrece]

As for studies, yes there are studies that show Top Tier gas is legit better. One of them is testing done by Lake Speed Jr. He made a video about it. His video is Shell vs an offbrand with UOA comparisons to compare engine wear.

There are also numerous Youtube videos about Shell vs others dyno comparisons.

Project Farm has a video comparing engine deposits with Top Tier vs off brand gas.

There are several independent test videos comparing the amount of additives in several brands of Top Tier gas and a few offbrands. However, testing the amount of additives isn't the same as testing performance of additives.

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf

I haven't seen any independent tests of injector cleanliness/performance with Top Tier vs other, but they might exist. I never looked for any because I never doubted it. My certified mechanic is a believer and that's good enough for me, especially after offbrand gas (eventually) clogged my fuel injectors on 2 past cars before I started using Top Tier gas.

I've owned my current car (97 Buick) for 15 years using only Top Tier fuel. Never a problem with injectors. I don't buy any fuel additives.

I have seen videos made by Shell and Chevron companies where they test and compare injector cleanliness and spray pattern of their gas vs offbrand gas.

So there are many tests and Youtube videos out there. Google all the above and search Youtube.

 

[Carlostrece]

I disagree. I spend $20-$30 per year on injector cleaner and have never had any issues. The rest of my family has never used injector cleaners at all and have never had issues. Most people I know never have injector issues. I’m saying all of this is really a non-issue to start with for the vast majority of people.

With my 40 cents a gallon gas discount, I'm paying 30 cents a gallon less for Shell gas than offbrand gas would cost me, and I never have to buy injector cleaner or any fuel additive.

Compared to me... You're paying more for offbrand gas + spending $30 a year on injector cleaner + some of your time to get the same result I'm getting.

 

[melk]

Fuel system cleaners offer advantages beyond just cleaning the injectors. There’s also the fuel lines and valve deposits in any non-DI engine.

I’m happy to spend the couple bucks a few times a year to run Techron, Regane, etc through a couple tanks of gas.

 

[brandon9715]

With my 40 cents a gallon gas discount, I'm paying 30 cents a gallon less for Shell gas than offbrand gas would cost me, and I never have to buy injector cleaner or any fuel additive.

Compared to me... You're paying more for offbrand gas + spending $30 a year on injector cleaner + some of your time to get the same result I'm getting.

If that's your preference, it's your car and your money.

Not all of us get $0.40/gallon employee discounts

 

[Carlostrece]

Not all of us get $0.40/gallon employee discounts

If you buy groceries at Kroger/Freds you can be a member and get discount on Shell gas.

Safeway/Albertsons members can get discount on Chevron gas.

Amazon Chase credit card offers discounts on any brand of gas with highest discounts on Chevron gas.

Costco members can get discounts on Costco gas.

But if none of those options are available to you, then I sympathize and see your point. I didn't mean to be insensitive earlier. I apologize.