Some people apparently run their BMWs on Kool-Aid.
is Regular oil safe for '03 BMW?
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
A5 is the thin version of A3.
And a zebra is a black-and-white version of a horse.
Creative metaphor, but this isn't English class. I give it a C+.
Now Pete, why don't you point out the technical differences....for the class.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
A5 is the thin version of A3.
And a zebra is a black-and-white version of a horse.
Creative metaphor, but this isn't English class. I give it a C+.
Now Pete, why don't you point out the technical differences....for the class.
I see Castrol GTX claims 57% less Sludge in M271 Sludge Test.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915464&contentId=7018508
"regular oil change intervals are the best thing you can do for your engine. If you extend your oil changes, you are leaving your car vulnerable to dangerous sludge build-up"
Not bad for $12/5q jug.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915464&contentId=7018508
"regular oil change intervals are the best thing you can do for your engine. If you extend your oil changes, you are leaving your car vulnerable to dangerous sludge build-up"
Not bad for $12/5q jug.
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Now Pete, why don't you point out the technical differences....for the class.
You know as well as I do.
Now Pete, why don't you point out the technical differences....for the class.
You know as well as I do.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Doug, for as long as you've been here, that's the best you can come up with, mere rhetoric?
It's like saying "no other oil will work in your car for a short interval because a failed spec was issued 9 years ago for long intervals". Hilarious.
Forget all the conflicting mfg objectives like extended ocis and the fact the oils we have here now were not even considered for a European LONG-LIFE spec in 2000, smart.
Oh, and the "confirmend in service" really cracks me up. Like oems never made a mistake.
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Doug, for as long as you've been here, that's the best you can come up with, mere rhetoric?
It's like saying "no other oil will work in your car for a short interval because a failed spec was issued 9 years ago for long intervals". Hilarious.
Forget all the conflicting mfg objectives like extended ocis and the fact the oils we have here now were not even considered for a European LONG-LIFE spec in 2000, smart.
Oh, and the "confirmend in service" really cracks me up. Like oems never made a mistake.
Hi,
Audi Junkie - Have a nice day!
Audi Junkie - Have a nice day!
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Now Pete, why don't you point out the technical differences....for the class.
You know as well as I do.
Do I, as well as know you.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Now Pete, why don't you point out the technical differences....for the class.
You know as well as I do.
Do I, as well as know you.
Those who say use the mfg recommended oil are getting grief.
Those who point out that conventional oil doesn't meet the specs are getting grief.
Those who use the spec'd oil are not calling for volunteers to run spec'd oil to test their theory. They run it in their own cars. Are the conventional fans running their oil in their bimmers? (If the conventional pushers are not, why should I?)
Some conventional fans are claiming it's cheaper to change oil twice than it is to change once. (See the claim that since conventional oil is 1/2 the price of the synth, it's cheaper to change twice as much.)
used oil analysis are linked to that show the results of using the correct oil. And one at least of a 14-16k OCI. Have any of 03 or newer bimmer engines on conventional been linked to? Not that I've seen.
So yeah, someone is on crack, but not us.
Those who point out that conventional oil doesn't meet the specs are getting grief.
Those who use the spec'd oil are not calling for volunteers to run spec'd oil to test their theory. They run it in their own cars. Are the conventional fans running their oil in their bimmers? (If the conventional pushers are not, why should I?)
Some conventional fans are claiming it's cheaper to change oil twice than it is to change once. (See the claim that since conventional oil is 1/2 the price of the synth, it's cheaper to change twice as much.)
used oil analysis are linked to that show the results of using the correct oil. And one at least of a 14-16k OCI. Have any of 03 or newer bimmer engines on conventional been linked to? Not that I've seen.
So yeah, someone is on crack, but not us.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Doug, for as long as you've been here, that's the best you can come up with, mere rhetoric?
It's like saying "no other oil will work in your car for a short interval because a failed spec was issued 9 years ago for long intervals". Hilarious.
Forget all the conflicting mfg objectives like extended ocis and the fact the oils we have here now were not even considered for a European LONG-LIFE spec in 2000, smart.
Oh, and the "confirmend in service" really cracks me up. Like oems never made a mistake.
I'm sorry, how much fleet testing and testing for OEM's have you done again?
Doug has an extensive resume including the above as well as numerous publications.
Unless your resume contains work for Shell, Exxon-Mobil, BP and the like, I think it would be polite to keep the tone of your posts to at least the "reasonable and considerate" level.
You can disagree with somebody politely.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Doug, for as long as you've been here, that's the best you can come up with, mere rhetoric?
It's like saying "no other oil will work in your car for a short interval because a failed spec was issued 9 years ago for long intervals". Hilarious.
Forget all the conflicting mfg objectives like extended ocis and the fact the oils we have here now were not even considered for a European LONG-LIFE spec in 2000, smart.
Oh, and the "confirmend in service" really cracks me up. Like oems never made a mistake.
I'm sorry, how much fleet testing and testing for OEM's have you done again?
Doug has an extensive resume including the above as well as numerous publications.
Unless your resume contains work for Shell, Exxon-Mobil, BP and the like, I think it would be polite to keep the tone of your posts to at least the "reasonable and considerate" level.
You can disagree with somebody politely.
OVERKILL, you've been a member here all of one year and you're not a Moderator, so don't pretend to be one.
If Doug has such a vast resume, why isn't he explaing how conventional SM or A1 oil with either equal to or 80% of the capacity of speced oil is broken down so rapidly, it's use is precluded for even a few 1000 miles, in an engine that can go full extended intervals on spec or A3 oil. Resume alone is as lame as retoric in an open discussion. What's next, crticize my spelling?
Physical characteristics: same
Chemical composition: same
Sludge control: same or even better, certianly 80% capacity of A3 oil
Saturates and sulphur the same to boot.
What was it, like 30 published properties which the oils were identical? mpg 2.5% difference, sludge control within 20%. Seeing how Mobil 1 had trouble passing it's own specs, and Castrol Dino claiming +50% sludge control over competing oils...I say there is very lame grounds to argue against SM/A1 conventional in a BMW I-6 at normal interval. Remember, your own claim is that the engine does fine at 15k with A3/LL-01 oil. I suspect if the BMW "experts" research they would find iterations of this engine operating BEFORE '01 with normal oil & intervals. They won't look, because that would kill their argument.
This thread is so backwards, Trajan has been hung-up for 5 pages on who is going to do the testing on the conventional oil...as if it matters.
Hard to tell if it's a BitOG low point or high point.
If Doug has such a vast resume, why isn't he explaing how conventional SM or A1 oil with either equal to or 80% of the capacity of speced oil is broken down so rapidly, it's use is precluded for even a few 1000 miles, in an engine that can go full extended intervals on spec or A3 oil. Resume alone is as lame as retoric in an open discussion. What's next, crticize my spelling?
Physical characteristics: same
Chemical composition: same
Sludge control: same or even better, certianly 80% capacity of A3 oil
Saturates and sulphur the same to boot.
What was it, like 30 published properties which the oils were identical? mpg 2.5% difference, sludge control within 20%. Seeing how Mobil 1 had trouble passing it's own specs, and Castrol Dino claiming +50% sludge control over competing oils...I say there is very lame grounds to argue against SM/A1 conventional in a BMW I-6 at normal interval. Remember, your own claim is that the engine does fine at 15k with A3/LL-01 oil. I suspect if the BMW "experts" research they would find iterations of this engine operating BEFORE '01 with normal oil & intervals. They won't look, because that would kill their argument.
This thread is so backwards, Trajan has been hung-up for 5 pages on who is going to do the testing on the conventional oil...as if it matters.
Hard to tell if it's a BitOG low point or high point.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
OVERKILL, you've been a member here all of one year and you're not a Moderator, so don't pretend to be one.
Yes, and in my short stay here, I've noticed that you like to be a condescending [censored] at times. This would be one of those times.
I have never claimed, pretended or felt that I have ever come across as trying to be a moderator. I simply asked that you address somebody with extensive experience in the industry, and by most on here, myself included, regarded as a valuable asset to this board, with a little respect.
I felt that this was a reasonable request. I know in my line of work, I would not get very far if I went off on tangents berated everybody I disagree with.
Quote:
If Doug has such a vast resume,
There is no "if". He does. I've found copies of his books. Where are yours again?
If you are qualified to berate Doug, then obviously you have extensive tribological publications of your own, correct?
Quote:
why isn't he explaing how dino SM or A1 oil with either equal to or 80% of the capacity of speced oil is broken down so rapidly, it's use is precluded for even a few 1000 miles, in an engine that can go full extended intervals on spec or A3 oil. Resume alone is as lame as retoric in an open discussion.
Physical characteristics: same
Chemical comosition: same
Sludge control: same or even better, certianly 80% capacity of A3 oil
Did you ask him to? Or are you just going off because this is a subject you feel strongly about and you feel his (very safe) response about simply using the manufacturer's recommended lubricant was an easy-out?
OVERKILL, you've been a member here all of one year and you're not a Moderator, so don't pretend to be one.
Yes, and in my short stay here, I've noticed that you like to be a condescending [censored] at times. This would be one of those times.
I have never claimed, pretended or felt that I have ever come across as trying to be a moderator. I simply asked that you address somebody with extensive experience in the industry, and by most on here, myself included, regarded as a valuable asset to this board, with a little respect.
I felt that this was a reasonable request. I know in my line of work, I would not get very far if I went off on tangents berated everybody I disagree with.
Quote:
If Doug has such a vast resume,
There is no "if". He does. I've found copies of his books. Where are yours again?
If you are qualified to berate Doug, then obviously you have extensive tribological publications of your own, correct?
Quote:
why isn't he explaing how dino SM or A1 oil with either equal to or 80% of the capacity of speced oil is broken down so rapidly, it's use is precluded for even a few 1000 miles, in an engine that can go full extended intervals on spec or A3 oil. Resume alone is as lame as retoric in an open discussion.
Physical characteristics: same
Chemical comosition: same
Sludge control: same or even better, certianly 80% capacity of A3 oil
Did you ask him to? Or are you just going off because this is a subject you feel strongly about and you feel his (very safe) response about simply using the manufacturer's recommended lubricant was an easy-out?
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Trajan has been hung-up for 5 pages on who is going to do the testing on the conventional oil...as if it matters.
And for as long as it goes on. I find it quite telling that you ask for volunteers to do a test that you yourself will not do.
That fact that you will not speaks to the very core of your arguement. Why do you insist on prosecuting a line that it is by now more than obvious that you will not prove.
So if your integrity is of any value to you, do the test, and prove beyond any doubt that your are right and we are wrong.
So yes, it does matter. At least who think that their word is of value. Or their self respect, integrity, et al.
And of course, if it doesn't matter, why did you even ask for volunteers?
I don't expect much of an answer, so back to the ignore list.
ps, While my knowledge of oil is slim, and of tribology could not even fill the head of a pin, at least I know enough to use the correct oil.
Trajan has been hung-up for 5 pages on who is going to do the testing on the conventional oil...as if it matters.
And for as long as it goes on. I find it quite telling that you ask for volunteers to do a test that you yourself will not do.
That fact that you will not speaks to the very core of your arguement. Why do you insist on prosecuting a line that it is by now more than obvious that you will not prove.
So if your integrity is of any value to you, do the test, and prove beyond any doubt that your are right and we are wrong.
So yes, it does matter. At least who think that their word is of value. Or their self respect, integrity, et al.
And of course, if it doesn't matter, why did you even ask for volunteers?
I don't expect much of an answer, so back to the ignore list.
ps, While my knowledge of oil is slim, and of tribology could not even fill the head of a pin, at least I know enough to use the correct oil.
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...and the beat goes on. Funny, how all that professional experience amounts to nothing more than recounting the wording of the BMW owner's manual, verbatim. ANYBODY could do that, even Trajan.I've never know Doug to deviate from oem service practice. That's just how he is and I accept that. I'm not shure how relavent the discussion is to him anyway, do they even get the same oils as we do here?
Never the less, I'll submit that I have MORE experience running HD and SM oils in Euro cars than just about anyone here. See how that works?
Tweeking the Castrol oil selector, it seems to call for 15w40 HD in I-6 engines prior to 2001.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/LubesSelector.do
Never the less, I'll submit that I have MORE experience running HD and SM oils in Euro cars than just about anyone here. See how that works?
Tweeking the Castrol oil selector, it seems to call for 15w40 HD in I-6 engines prior to 2001.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/LubesSelector.do
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Trajan has been hung-up for 5 pages on who is going to do the testing on the conventional oil...as if it matters.
And for as long as it goes on. I find it quite telling that you ask for volunteers to do a test that you yourself will not do.
That fact that you will not speaks to the very core of your arguement. Why do you insist on prosecuting a line that it is by now more than obvious that you will not prove.
So if your integrity is of any value to you, do the test, and prove beyond any doubt that your are right and we are wrong.
So yes, it does matter. At least who think that their word is of value. Or their self respect, integrity, et al.
And of course, if it doesn't matter, why did you even ask for volunteers?
I don't expect much of an answer, so back to the ignore list.
ps, While my knowledge of oil is slim, and of tribology could not even fill the head of a pin, at least I know enough to use the correct oil.
Just to get this striat, I'm supposed to buy a car, run the oil and do the tests to prove to you what oil you could use in you own car? lol, and if I don't do it that "proves" I'm wrong?
Honestly, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written here.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Trajan has been hung-up for 5 pages on who is going to do the testing on the conventional oil...as if it matters.
And for as long as it goes on. I find it quite telling that you ask for volunteers to do a test that you yourself will not do.
That fact that you will not speaks to the very core of your arguement. Why do you insist on prosecuting a line that it is by now more than obvious that you will not prove.
So if your integrity is of any value to you, do the test, and prove beyond any doubt that your are right and we are wrong.
So yes, it does matter. At least who think that their word is of value. Or their self respect, integrity, et al.
And of course, if it doesn't matter, why did you even ask for volunteers?
I don't expect much of an answer, so back to the ignore list.
ps, While my knowledge of oil is slim, and of tribology could not even fill the head of a pin, at least I know enough to use the correct oil.
Just to get this striat, I'm supposed to buy a car, run the oil and do the tests to prove to you what oil you could use in you own car? lol, and if I don't do it that "proves" I'm wrong?
Honestly, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written here.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
...and the beat goes on. Funny, how all that professional experience amounts to nothing more than recounting the wording of the BMW owner's manual, verbatim. I've never know Doug to deviate from oem service practice. That's just how he is and I accept that. I'm not shure how relavent the discussion is to him anyway, do they even get the same oils as we do here?
Never the less, I'll submit that I have MORE experience running HD and SM oils in Euro cars than just about anyone here. See how that works?
Tweeking the Castrol oil selector, it seems to call for 15w40 HD in I-6 engines prior to 2001.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/LubesSelector.do
FWIW:
Doug runs 0w40 in a car of his that spec's 5w40 IIRC, or it could be the other way around.
He and I went over running 5w40 or 0w40 in my Expedition that spec's 5w20. He recommended the 0w40, but said the 5w40 would be fine. It is running the 5w40 right now.
I know that Doug has extensive experience with Porsche and Mercedes, in fact he just returned from a trip to Germany, involving both companies. If relevant, I'm sure he will post up the details, something I am not going to do out of respect.
I am just saying this: Do not discount Doug's experience. Because he has made a recommendation that you feel is either vague or conservative, does not mean there is not significant reasoning behind it.
...and the beat goes on. Funny, how all that professional experience amounts to nothing more than recounting the wording of the BMW owner's manual, verbatim. I've never know Doug to deviate from oem service practice. That's just how he is and I accept that. I'm not shure how relavent the discussion is to him anyway, do they even get the same oils as we do here?
Never the less, I'll submit that I have MORE experience running HD and SM oils in Euro cars than just about anyone here. See how that works?
Tweeking the Castrol oil selector, it seems to call for 15w40 HD in I-6 engines prior to 2001.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/LubesSelector.do
FWIW:
Doug runs 0w40 in a car of his that spec's 5w40 IIRC, or it could be the other way around.
He and I went over running 5w40 or 0w40 in my Expedition that spec's 5w20. He recommended the 0w40, but said the 5w40 would be fine. It is running the 5w40 right now.
I know that Doug has extensive experience with Porsche and Mercedes, in fact he just returned from a trip to Germany, involving both companies. If relevant, I'm sure he will post up the details, something I am not going to do out of respect.
I am just saying this: Do not discount Doug's experience. Because he has made a recommendation that you feel is either vague or conservative, does not mean there is not significant reasoning behind it.
The reason I believe there is no "significant reasoning" behind it is because I don't see any annunciation of it. Is that irrational?
I made my case in detail, not even getting the respect of the same in return. Doug didn't bother to address me, other than to say "___off". So, who's the bad member again?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
The reason I believe there is no "significant reasoning" behind it is because I don't see any annunciation of it. Is that irrational?
I made my case in detail, not even getting the respect of the same in return. Doug didn't bother to address me, other than to say "___off". So, who's the bad member again?
I didn't find anything respectful about your post to Doug?
He had made ONE POST in this thread (AFAIK) and you went off on him.
Then you expect him to simply swallow that and answer your question(s)?
It doesn't work that way. His reply was polite. But he gave you no information. I wouldn't have either.
Try asking politely next time. You'll find it works wonders. Respect is a two-way street. I've personally learned a LOT from Doug, he is a wealth of knowledge for those willing to listen.
The reason I believe there is no "significant reasoning" behind it is because I don't see any annunciation of it. Is that irrational?
I didn't find anything respectful about your post to Doug?
He had made ONE POST in this thread (AFAIK) and you went off on him.
Then you expect him to simply swallow that and answer your question(s)?
It doesn't work that way. His reply was polite. But he gave you no information. I wouldn't have either.
Try asking politely next time. You'll find it works wonders. Respect is a two-way street. I've personally learned a LOT from Doug, he is a wealth of knowledge for those willing to listen.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Doug, for as long as you've been here, that's the best you can come up with, mere rhetoric?
It's like saying "no other oil will work in your car for a short interval because a failed spec was issued 9 years ago for long intervals". Hilarious.
Forget all the conflicting mfg objectives like extended ocis and the fact the oils we have here now were not even considered for a European LONG-LIFE spec in 2000, smart.
Oh, and the "confirmend in service" really cracks me up. Like oems never made a mistake.
What's devastating enough in this post to make a grown man go and pout? Pointing out issues he may have overlooked?
How dare I?
He's an adult and can take care of himself.
If it's all too much for you to handle, you can guess what I'd say to that.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Doug, for as long as you've been here, that's the best you can come up with, mere rhetoric?
It's like saying "no other oil will work in your car for a short interval because a failed spec was issued 9 years ago for long intervals". Hilarious.
Forget all the conflicting mfg objectives like extended ocis and the fact the oils we have here now were not even considered for a European LONG-LIFE spec in 2000, smart.
Oh, and the "confirmend in service" really cracks me up. Like oems never made a mistake.
What's devastating enough in this post to make a grown man go and pout? Pointing out issues he may have overlooked?
How dare I?
He's an adult and can take care of himself.
If it's all too much for you to handle, you can guess what I'd say to that.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Doug, for as long as you've been here, that's the best you can come up with, mere rhetoric?
It's like saying "no other oil will work in your car for a short interval because a failed spec was issued 9 years ago for long intervals". Hilarious.
Forget all the conflicting mfg objectives like extended ocis and the fact the oils we have here now were not even considered for a European LONG-LIFE spec in 2000, smart.
Oh, and the "confirmend in service" really cracks me up. Like oems never made a mistake.
What's devastating enough in this post to make a grown man go and pout? Pointing out issues he may have overlooked?
How dare I?
Oh, I dunno, classifying his recommendation as rhetoric, then calling it "hilarious", sarcastically "smart", and then "cracks me up" would be enough for me to tell you where to go. No pouting involved.
That post shows no respect. None. My grandfather would have rapped me across the shins with a cane if I ever spoke to him with that sort of tone.
When I was growing up, I was taught to respect my elders, ask questions, and be polite even if I disagreed. I was not discouraged from thinking for myself, but I would never dream of being condescending or rude to somebody who obviously knew a lot more about a particular topic than I, even if I didn't agree with his explanation or process.
Doug knows a lot more about this topic than I do. So when I seek his input on a subject, I ask him politely about it. And he replies to me. Respect should not be a difficult concept to grasp.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Tobin - You are best to use an oil specified as correct for your engine. BMW's engine lubricant requirements are well known, and these have been confirmed in service!
The people that know which lubricant specifications are best are the people that designed, produced and warranted the engine you have
Doug, for as long as you've been here, that's the best you can come up with, mere rhetoric?
It's like saying "no other oil will work in your car for a short interval because a failed spec was issued 9 years ago for long intervals". Hilarious.
Forget all the conflicting mfg objectives like extended ocis and the fact the oils we have here now were not even considered for a European LONG-LIFE spec in 2000, smart.
Oh, and the "confirmend in service" really cracks me up. Like oems never made a mistake.
What's devastating enough in this post to make a grown man go and pout? Pointing out issues he may have overlooked?
How dare I?
Oh, I dunno, classifying his recommendation as rhetoric, then calling it "hilarious", sarcastically "smart", and then "cracks me up" would be enough for me to tell you where to go. No pouting involved.
That post shows no respect. None. My grandfather would have rapped me across the shins with a cane if I ever spoke to him with that sort of tone.
When I was growing up, I was taught to respect my elders, ask questions, and be polite even if I disagreed. I was not discouraged from thinking for myself, but I would never dream of being condescending or rude to somebody who obviously knew a lot more about a particular topic than I, even if I didn't agree with his explanation or process.
Doug knows a lot more about this topic than I do. So when I seek his input on a subject, I ask him politely about it. And he replies to me. Respect should not be a difficult concept to grasp.
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