is Regular oil safe for '03 BMW?

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Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie


btw- Dr.Hass got great UOA results with 5w-20 in his new Ferrari, which specs 10w-60. I assume people here know this stuff, but I guess not.


I know you seem to have a personal issue with anything Doug posts, but if you read his article on UOA's, which IS backed by personal experience, you would realize that the relevance and validity of the data provided by what you just mentioned is sketchy at best.

I am NOT discounting Dr. Haas's contributions; he has made a great effort to provide a lot of good information, and gone out of his way to do so. But I do not believe the UOA's provide any real value.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Well, the original poster asked: Is regular oil safe in an '03 BMW? That's the question at hand, not "is dino oil the same as BMW oil under the long change intervals they recommend".

It's both shallow and rehtorical to continually answer with the non-answer of "BMW said to use their oil". Does that mean full-length ocis or not? If so, then I still see a problem, because the track record on BMW oil is not spotless. I assume you run yours to 15k, since you have so much blind faith in BMW, right? Put up or shut up.

Not only am I talking about half-length or shorter ocis, the spec you refer to was contrived on another continent, outdated, plus you have ZERO information on it. So, dino 10w-40 SM could be the equal of BMW oil, and you would NEVER EVEN KNOW. I find that hysterical, since we're on an oil forum, I mean why bother even coming here to read from the manual? Your Mommy could do that for you.



Lol.

Most drivers like being spoon fed from their manufacturers.
 
Doug Hillary said:
Hi,
sprintman - Thanks for your comments. Yes, I will start a Thread early next week that will cover the lubricant related points[/quot

It's good to hear from you once again, and look forward to your post soon.
Click to expand...
 
Funny thing about Doug, he's never really as offended as he portrays himself. There's nothing patently offensive in my post either, and nothing wrong with trying to snap some sense into him. "Consider the facts" is about as harsh as that was.

On that note, I was right there on the tread with Doug 3-4 years ago when he made one of his (in)famous walk-outs. I was not directly involved with his discussion, but I took the effort to PM back and forth with him several times to console him and tell him that was no way to respond to (mild, honestly) attacks.

When he came back after almost 2 years, I again rushed to take the extra step to welcome him back. Maybe he forgets, that's his perogative, but it was long before most of the posters here even browsed this place. So, if I wish to be curt with him, so be it.
 
I hear this "only the best stuff for my car" rant all the time on Audi Forums. It just does not always make sense.

At BitOG, we use rationality to make informed decisions about that kind of stuff. "Informed" here means oil and comparing as many known chemical and physical characteristics (including cost!) of it to select an appropriate application.

For those who are too new to know that, it's excusable from a emerical perspective, but for the veteran posters who ~should~ know the basic principles, you need to reconsider your role on this forum.

We shure know that dino oil is generally better than it has to be and has every similarity to "synth", specificly BMW synth, which as ALWAYS been considered a G-III oil. Do the people giving me cr^p even know this stuff? Bottom line is that in this case, SM jug dino is an appropriate application.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Do the people giving me cr^p even know this stuff?


Just to clarify here: I was not giving you [censored] over your advice/recommendation/though process. Simply the nature of your reply to Doug. Nothing more.
 
Audi J,
I looked the word "emerical" in two dictionaries and can't find it. Anyway, thanks for excusing me from that perspective since I'm new here.
Since I am new here I must say I have learned much from you guys, but the harshness of tone at times takes away from the learning experience. All of us has things to offer, some more than others, so can't we all be more civil to each other, then BITOG will will fulfill it's role as the premier lub forum on the web.

Gerald
 
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1061057 From 2008.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/news/epcp_0811_oe_approved_car_oils/index.html

Some people like to cry foul and say that they don't think it's right for a car manufacturer to dictate what type of oil to use, especially if another oil company says their product exceeds their specifications. The other oil company might throw up some test and show some proof that their oil is superior to an approved oil brand. But there really is only one test for approval and that's the real-world test, which includes extensive testing of emissions, oxidation, wear-and-tear distribution on moving metal-to-metal parts, fuel economy, and severe wear-and-tear testing (about 600 hours of continued use) on your type of vehicle.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php/BMW_E46#Oil_service

ADDINOL Super power MV 0537 SAE 5W-30 Addinol Lube Oil GmbH
Agip Formula LL B 01 SAE 0W-30 ENI S.p.A.Refining and Marketing Division
Agip Sint 2000 Evolution SAE 5W-40 ENI S.p.A.Refining and Marketing Division
Agip TECSINT SL SAE 5W-40 ENI S.p.A.Refining and Marketing Division
Aral SuperTronic SAE 5W-30 Aral
AXCL S-Class Motor Oil SAE 0W-30 AXCL Gulf FZE
BP Visco 7000 SAE 0W-40 BP Oil International
BP Visco 7000 Special SAE 0W-30 BP Oil International
BP Visco 7000 Turbo Diesel SAE 0W-40 BP Oil International
Castrol Formula SLX LL01 SAE 0W-30 Castrol Limited
Castrol Formula SLX Turbo Diesel SAE 0W-30 Castrol Limited
Castrol Formula RS Power and Protection SAE 0W-40 Castrol Limited
Castrol Syntec SAE 0W-30 Castrol Limited
Castrol Super Racing 0W-40 SAE 0W-40 Castrol Limited
Castrol TXT Softec LL01 SAE 5W-30 Castrol Limited
Cepsa Star Mega Synthetic SAE 0W-30 Cepsa Lubricantes S.A.
Elf Excellium LDX SAE 0W-30 Total
Formula Shell Ultra AB SAE 5W-30 Shell International Petroleum Company
Gulf Formula TLX SAE 0W-30 Total
Havoline Synthetic BM SAE 0W-30 Texaco
Igol Process Compact P SAE 5W-30 Igol France S.A.
Jet Top Level SAE 0W-40 ConocoPhillips GmbH
Labo RC SAE 0W-30 ***hs Labo Auto S.A.
Liqui Moly Longlife High Tech SAE 5W-30 Liqui Moly
megol Motoren***246;l New Generation SAE 5W-30 Meguin GmbH
Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40 ExxonMobil
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel SAE 0W-40 ExxonMobil
Motorex Profile B-XL SAE 0W-30 Bucher AG
Motorex Select SP-X SAE 5W-30 Bucher AG
Motul Specific LL-01 SAE 5W-30 Motul S.A:
OMV full syn plus SAE 5W-30 OMV AG
Pennzoil European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30 Pennzoil Quaker State
Pentospeed 0W-30 VS* SAE 0W-30 Deutsche Pentosin-Werke
Petronas Syntium 3000 LL SAE 5W-30 Petronas
Q8 Formula Special SAE 0W-30 Kuwait Petroleum
Quaker State European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30 Pennzoil Quaker State
Satoil LazerWay B SAE 5W-30 Svenska Statoil AB
Shell Helix Ultra AB SAE 5W-30 Shell International Petroleum Company
Titan Supersyn SL SAE 0W-30 ***hs Petrolub AG
Valvoline SynPower MXL SAE 0W-30 Valvoline
Veedol Powertron LL01 SAE 5W-30 Veedol International
Veedol Syntron SAE 0W-30 Veedol International
Wintershall VIVA 1 Longlife SAE 5W-30 SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb GmbH
Yacco VX 1600 SAE 5W-30 Yacco S.A.S.

Kindly list the dinos that meet the specs.

I have gone 15k. well actually 14672, as that was what the OLM indicated when I bought it. But like Quattro, I feel better going 7500-8000 between oil changes. Course if I was crazy enough to use dino, since I would have to change it twice as often, that would be no cheaper. More than likely more expensive, being that I would change the filter as well. And even more to the point, it would waste time.

Wasted money can be replaced. Wasted time, never.
 
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Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I hear this "only the best stuff for my car" rant all the time on Audi Forums. It just does not always make sense.

At BitOG, we use rationality to make informed decisions about that kind of stuff. "Informed" here means oil and comparing as many known chemical and physical characteristics (including cost!) of it to select an appropriate application.

For those who are too new to know that, it's excusable from a emerical perspective, but for the veteran posters who ~should~ know the basic principles, you need to reconsider your role on this forum.

We shure know that dino oil is generally better than it has to be and has every similarity to "synth", specificly BMW synth, which as ALWAYS been considered a G-III oil. Do the people giving me cr^p even know this stuff? Bottom line is that in this case, SM jug dino is an appropriate application.


as lubrication laymen we will never pony up the goods to be able to make an educated decision. I give a LOT of weight to what an industry expert says, and really, Doug may be one of the few left.

Do You realise that you're telling people who won't accept that running a $2 oil instead of a $10 oil in their $50,000 car are better off not coming here? well, i got news for you. oil costs are so small compared to the overall costs and VALUE you get out of your car, why take the risk of using non-specified oil?? that $8 will be spent on beer, chocolate, pizza whatever. so it's not about money. if you can prove you have banked every single cent you've saved from using non-spec oil maybe you have a point, but, you didn't, did you?
 
Originally Posted By: crinkles
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I hear this "only the best stuff for my car" rant all the time on Audi Forums. It just does not always make sense.

At BitOG, we use rationality to make informed decisions about that kind of stuff. "Informed" here means oil and comparing as many known chemical and physical characteristics (including cost!) of it to select an appropriate application.

For those who are too new to know that, it's excusable from a emerical perspective, but for the veteran posters who ~should~ know the basic principles, you need to reconsider your role on this forum.

We shure know that dino oil is generally better than it has to be and has every similarity to "synth", specificly BMW synth, which as ALWAYS been considered a G-III oil. Do the people giving me cr^p even know this stuff? Bottom line is that in this case, SM jug dino is an appropriate application.


as lubrication laymen we will never pony up the goods to be able to make an educated decision. I give a LOT of weight to what an industry expert says, and really, Doug may be one of the few left.

Do You realise that you're telling people who won't accept that running a $2 oil instead of a $10 oil in their $50,000 car are better off not coming here? well, i got news for you. oil costs are so small compared to the overall costs and VALUE you get out of your car, why take the risk of using non-specified oil?? that $8 will be spent on beer, chocolate, pizza whatever. so it's not about money. if you can prove you have banked every single cent you've saved from using non-spec oil maybe you have a point, but, you didn't, did you?


Well, he has proved a few things, just what what he thought he would.

1: He's proved that if you dare to presume he drives an Audi, he jumps down your throat. (Bottom, page 14.)

2: He's proved that he can't stick to a brand. As each one is shot down, he comes up with another. Not a one that meets spec.

3: He's proved he doesn't understand that there is more to it than a long OCI. Or understand even simple economics. Changing oil twice over 10k is not cheaper than doing it once.

4: By looking for volunteers, he has proved that he really has no faith in his claim. And now that he has been called on it, it doesn't matter?

5: Has proved that anyone who dares to say that the people who design and warranty these engines know better is in for alot of undeservered grief.

6: Has proven that OVERK1LL is right. He does like to be a condescending .

I'll stick with what the mfg recommends. The thundering lack of claims against them for engine failures due to doing so, vs someone who has no engine designs to their credit, is reason enough.

The fact that someone who has stated in post after post, and yes I've looked up quite a few, the same thing about oil usage, and has the credentials to back it up, (looked them up to.), compared to someone who who jumps down his thoat, and doesn't have the credentials, is icing on the cake.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trajan

I feel better going 7500-8000 between oil changes. Course if I was crazy enough to use dino, since I would have to change it twice as often, that would be no cheaper.


No, $2 oil at 6000 miles is cheaper than $8 oil at 7500 miles. Simple math.

I'm glad you "feel better".I still feel sorry for the people around you though.
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan


Well, he has proved a few things, just what what he thought he would.

1: He's proved that if you dare to presume he drives an Audi, he jumps down your throat. (Bottom, page 14.)

2: He's proved that he can't stick to a brand. As each one is shot down, he comes up with another. Not a one that meets spec.

3: He's proved he doesn't understand that there is more to it than a long OCI. Or understand even simple economics. Changing oil twice over 10k is not cheaper than doing it once.

4: By looking for volunteers, he has proved that he really has no faith in his claim. And now that he has been called on it, it doesn't matter?

5: Has proved that anyone who dares to say that the people who design and warranty these engines know better is in for alot of undeservered grief.

6: Has proven that OVERK1LL is right. He does like to be a condescending .




1) Making presumptions seems to have become an epidemic all of sudden. You worry about the sillyest things.Are you really a girl? How was that Kool Aid anyway? It's your first BMW, so they probally gave you and double dose.

2) Ok, I can't "stick to a brand"? I guess that's relavent, somehow.

3) I don't cry and wet my pants when it's time to change oil. I can't really explain that to you, it's genetic.

4) Right, I have no faith in my claim, although I sit through all the mindless rabble you conjure up. Plus I actually do a lil research. If I somehow hadn "no faith" in HD oil, we would be the only people around here that didn't.There at least a few guys who would disagree...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1

5) If anyone deserves grief, it's not the "people" (engineers) who design and test the engines, it's the marketing and bean-counters who put these cars out there with 15k ocis.

It's quite a laugh that Trajan dishonours the BMW team so greviously, by not observing their holy speced intervals himself, he rails against it, in a decidedly confused and disoriented manner.

6) OVEK1LL? Right about what? He'll come around.


What a laugh. Trajan, why don't you send Terry Dyson a PM and explain how wrong he is. I'm shure he'd love to hear from you. Enjoy your next $200 oil change.
 
Doug, Mola and Bruce, IMHO, are the only real "experts" on this board. Everybody else, just like you and me, are simply enthusiasts.

So I'm not exactly sure what I will be "coming around" to?

Brow-beating people who know more than I do on on a particular subject? I doubt that would prove to be effective.

Though your apparent posting style would indicate that your feelings are quite to the contrary.....
 
Well, hopefully I'm done here. Given the best advice to the OP that I can give, which is to use the specified oil. The best people to know what their engines require are the ones who designed it, build it, and maybe more important, back it with a warranty.

Are there better oils? Possibly. But have these oils done what is required to make the list? Probably not. But I've never heard of an oil maker getting a letter saying that their oil is too good.

Do mfgs get things wrong. Of couse they do. The list is long and storied. It doesn't matter if it's Pontiac and their first year Fieros, or MB with their dino oil class action suit. Or even Dr Porsche and his petrol-electric drive for Tiger tanks.

But, I submit they get it right far more often. There is also a very long list of mfgs that don't exsist anymore. I guess they really didn't get it right either?

I, for myself, feel quite comfortable telling any BMW owner that it is perfectly fine to use the specified oil. I have used it for the last three years, one month, and nineteen days. For the last 77,000 miles in year round driving.

I also feel quite comfortable recommending to the OP, or any other bimmer owner, to use M1 0w-40, the GC 0w-30, or to continue with the dealer oil.

Want to talk emperical data? *I* use those oils. No asking for anyone to risk their car using oils that I don't use.

Emperical data? Pictures of nice, clean, motors that use the specified oil. With OCIs up to 16K miles.

Emperical data? How about the lack of lawsuits filed by people who have suffered engine failure due to following BMW's recommendations. (And kindly note that MB learned their lesson and spec synth.)

Emperical data? Porsche uses M1 for factory fill. I read somewhere that Bently does. I think Ferrari does too. I've read that in the same place, but at the moment can't recall where. We know what BMW uses for FF.

More emperical data. Not a dino oil amongst the lot.

I used to point people to this board. Family, friends, people from unrelated boards. Looks like I made a huge mistake. If people who have the credentials and experience are being told that they have their head up their [censored], imagine what those don't are going to suffer.

Well, I don't have to imagine.....

edit to hopefully catch all spelling mistakes.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Trajan

I feel better going 7500-8000 between oil changes. Course if I was crazy enough to use dino, since I would have to change it twice as often, that would be no cheaper.


No, $2 oil at 6000 miles is cheaper than $8 oil at 7500 miles. Simple math.

I'm glad you "feel better".I still feel sorry for the people around you though.


Ummm, it was you who said that, and I point to the top of page 14 "but I'm saying dino IS the BETTER option as long as the owner does not mind draining it out 2x as often as the synth that costs 2x as much."

I see you still can't make up your mind. Thanks for playing. And for once again proving OVERK1LL's statement.
 
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Oh, and just so we're clear anytime I make a statement such as the one you qutoe, it is in reference to page 14.
 
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