Tks for BFC link, I missed that.
is Regular oil safe for '03 BMW?
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Just for brown organic matter and giggles, I went to the local Walmart. Just got back.
I looked at RP, and Rotella.
All that RP says that it meets SL. So yet another oil that doesn't meet spec.
And Rotella? Yet another fail. (I'm pretty sure that there are people here that use it in gasoline engines though. But it is SL rated. So as far as BMWs go, fail.)
I looked at RP, and Rotella.
All that RP says that it meets SL. So yet another oil that doesn't meet spec.
And Rotella? Yet another fail. (I'm pretty sure that there are people here that use it in gasoline engines though. But it is SL rated. So as far as BMWs go, fail.)
Originally Posted By: ericthepig
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
AJ... You're asking for someone to disregard the manufacturer recommendations and use their own car as a guinea pig to verify if your unproven assumptions will work or not...
How else will BITOGr's learn if their theories hold water.
By testing it in their own vehicles instead of someone elses.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
AJ... You're asking for someone to disregard the manufacturer recommendations and use their own car as a guinea pig to verify if your unproven assumptions will work or not...
How else will BITOGr's learn if their theories hold water.
By testing it in their own vehicles instead of someone elses.
Here is another link with some good debate and discussions regarding sludge in a BMW 325i engine.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=684420
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=684420
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
A bad PCV could account for any/all bad results.
Sooo, if BMW oil is "fine" at 15k, why wouldnt' an "equivalent" (my word) oil work JUST AS well?
If, and I do mean "if" the ~engine~ itself appears to be able to run 15k on BMW oil, an oil that's really nothing special, that tells me it's even MORE likely that it will do fine on HD/HM/PC-SM oil too, at a more conservative interval.(if not better, lol)
North American conventional oil products have improved since the 1990's when it common to find SH on the sheves and SJ was the best standard. Should we divert to compare the actual test sequences for SH/SJ with SM? BMW's recommendation made sense in 2001, but not in 2009 North America.
Of all the parameters considered by the mfg, it appears to me that extended drain intervals are what's primary, hence the spec name: BMW "Long-Life-01".
The "bad PCV" is typically caused by it plugging with sludge. The sludge can be from extended OCI with conventional oil or head gasket leaks or lots of short trips in the winter. Run on sentence?
I do agree with you that oil has improved significantly since 2001 and if someone decides to run conventional oil in a BMW they would be wise to choose an oil with A3 and SM certification. They will probably be fine as long as the OCI isn't stretched out too long.
I disagree about BMW 5W30 being "nothing special". I would say that any oil that meets BMW LL01 is a very robust oil that can withstand long OCI under stressful conditions, provides decent fuel economy and has very good cold weather properties.
A bad PCV could account for any/all bad results.
Sooo, if BMW oil is "fine" at 15k, why wouldnt' an "equivalent" (my word) oil work JUST AS well?
If, and I do mean "if" the ~engine~ itself appears to be able to run 15k on BMW oil, an oil that's really nothing special, that tells me it's even MORE likely that it will do fine on HD/HM/PC-SM oil too, at a more conservative interval.(if not better, lol)
North American conventional oil products have improved since the 1990's when it common to find SH on the sheves and SJ was the best standard. Should we divert to compare the actual test sequences for SH/SJ with SM? BMW's recommendation made sense in 2001, but not in 2009 North America.
Of all the parameters considered by the mfg, it appears to me that extended drain intervals are what's primary, hence the spec name: BMW "Long-Life-01".
The "bad PCV" is typically caused by it plugging with sludge. The sludge can be from extended OCI with conventional oil or head gasket leaks or lots of short trips in the winter. Run on sentence?
I do agree with you that oil has improved significantly since 2001 and if someone decides to run conventional oil in a BMW they would be wise to choose an oil with A3 and SM certification. They will probably be fine as long as the OCI isn't stretched out too long.
I disagree about BMW 5W30 being "nothing special". I would say that any oil that meets BMW LL01 is a very robust oil that can withstand long OCI under stressful conditions, provides decent fuel economy and has very good cold weather properties.
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf
Comparing an A3 oil to a dino is easier when comparing it to other ACEA specs, rather than API, A1 being the obvious choice.
This part is interesting...
___A1___
xW-20 stay in grade
xW-30 ≥ 8.6
xW-40 ≥ 12.0
___A3___
All must
stay in
grade
Well, it looks like A1 10w-40 must stay above 12cSt, in grade like A3. Only 30 weights are allowed to shear, to 8.6 cSt.
Comparing an A3 oil to a dino is easier when comparing it to other ACEA specs, rather than API, A1 being the obvious choice.
This part is interesting...
___A1___
xW-20 stay in grade
xW-30 ≥ 8.6
xW-40 ≥ 12.0
___A3___
All must
stay in
grade
Well, it looks like A1 10w-40 must stay above 12cSt, in grade like A3. Only 30 weights are allowed to shear, to 8.6 cSt.
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In the area of-
High temperature
deposits
Ring sticking
Oil thickening
It looks like A3 is allowed x .8 of a certain standard (R-216) compared to A1. 20% less after 75 hours testing for the synth.
The allowable numbers for these areas-
Average engine sludge
Rocker cover sludge
Average Piston skirt varnish
Average engine varnish
Comp. ring (hot stuck)
Oil screen clogging
Are all identical for A1 and A3...
___A1___
≥ 7.8
≥ 8.0
≥ 7.5
≥ 8.9
none
≤ 20
___A3___
≥ 7.8
≥ 8.0
≥ 7.5
≥ 8.9
none
≤ 20
As well as...
Cam wear. Average (New tappet)
Viscosity increase at 40°C
Bore polishing
Cylinder wear. Average
Oil consumption
Piston cleanliness
Ring sticking (Rings 1 & 2)
Average of all 8 rings
Max. for any 1st ring
Max. for any 2nd ring
Absolute viscosity increase at
100oC and 6 % soot
Piston merit (see note 8)
Cam wear, average
Cam wear, max.
Pad merit (Ave. of 8 pads)
Engine sludge, average
Ring sticking
Piston cleanliness
Are ALL IDENTICAL with one exception...
Fuel economy improvement vs.
Reference oil RL191 (15W-40)
It needs to be > = 2.5% better
Can I take a break now?
High temperature
deposits
Ring sticking
Oil thickening
It looks like A3 is allowed x .8 of a certain standard (R-216) compared to A1. 20% less after 75 hours testing for the synth.
The allowable numbers for these areas-
Average engine sludge
Rocker cover sludge
Average Piston skirt varnish
Average engine varnish
Comp. ring (hot stuck)
Oil screen clogging
Are all identical for A1 and A3...
___A1___
≥ 7.8
≥ 8.0
≥ 7.5
≥ 8.9
none
≤ 20
___A3___
≥ 7.8
≥ 8.0
≥ 7.5
≥ 8.9
none
≤ 20
As well as...
Cam wear. Average (New tappet)
Viscosity increase at 40°C
Bore polishing
Cylinder wear. Average
Oil consumption
Piston cleanliness
Ring sticking (Rings 1 & 2)
Average of all 8 rings
Max. for any 1st ring
Max. for any 2nd ring
Absolute viscosity increase at
100oC and 6 % soot
Piston merit (see note 8)
Cam wear, average
Cam wear, max.
Pad merit (Ave. of 8 pads)
Engine sludge, average
Ring sticking
Piston cleanliness
Are ALL IDENTICAL with one exception...
Fuel economy improvement vs.
Reference oil RL191 (15W-40)
It needs to be > = 2.5% better
Can I take a break now?
Originally Posted By: mva
Here is another link with some good debate and discussions regarding sludge in a BMW 325i engine.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=684420
Worth a look.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pictures-of-117k-miles-330ci-innards.103533/
And the same challenge issued earlier.
Here is another link with some good debate and discussions regarding sludge in a BMW 325i engine.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=684420
Worth a look.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pictures-of-117k-miles-330ci-innards.103533/
And the same challenge issued earlier.
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What are pics of a 5k GC engine and pics of a neglected engine with an unknown history supposed to tell us?
"We think the previous owner wasn't doing the oil changes right either by following the 15,000 BMW intervals or used the wrong oil."
So the tech is saying the BMW 15k intervals could have done this?
"We think the previous owner wasn't doing the oil changes right either by following the 15,000 BMW intervals or used the wrong oil."
So the tech is saying the BMW 15k intervals could have done this?
Ok, so now where do we find A3 or even A1 dino? Once we find it, how much does it cost?
I just checked my stash, Castrol and Pennzoil USA websites and stock at a couple of local stores:
Oils meeting A3
Castrol Syntec 0W30, 5W40, 5W50
Mobil 1 5W50
Mobil 1 0W40 (not in stock)
Maxlife Full Synthetic 10W30 (old stock)
Oils meeting A1
Valvoline Synpower 5W30, 10W30
Mobil 1 10W30, 5W30, 5W20
Castrol Syntec 10W30, 5W30
None of the conventional oils I checked had A1 or A3 approval. This includes:
Pennzoil conventional, Pennzoil High Mileage, Pennzoil Truck and SUV
Valvoline conventional and Maxlife
Castrol GTX 5W20, 5W30, 10W40, 20W50
ESSO 10W30, 5W30, 15W40
Quaker State
Shell Rotella T 15W40
http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/Pennzoil Conventional.pdf
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...psd_gtx_usa.pdf
Apparently A1 and A3 specs are not that easy to meet. Even our BITOG favorite Pennzoil Platinum does not meet A1 or A3.
Can I take a break now?
I just checked my stash, Castrol and Pennzoil USA websites and stock at a couple of local stores:
Oils meeting A3
Castrol Syntec 0W30, 5W40, 5W50
Mobil 1 5W50
Mobil 1 0W40 (not in stock)
Maxlife Full Synthetic 10W30 (old stock)
Oils meeting A1
Valvoline Synpower 5W30, 10W30
Mobil 1 10W30, 5W30, 5W20
Castrol Syntec 10W30, 5W30
None of the conventional oils I checked had A1 or A3 approval. This includes:
Pennzoil conventional, Pennzoil High Mileage, Pennzoil Truck and SUV
Valvoline conventional and Maxlife
Castrol GTX 5W20, 5W30, 10W40, 20W50
ESSO 10W30, 5W30, 15W40
Quaker State
Shell Rotella T 15W40
http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/Pennzoil Conventional.pdf
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...psd_gtx_usa.pdf
Apparently A1 and A3 specs are not that easy to meet. Even our BITOG favorite Pennzoil Platinum does not meet A1 or A3.
Can I take a break now?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
What are pics of a 5k GC engine and pics of a neglected engine with an unknown history supposed to tell us?
"We think the previous owner wasn't doing the oil changes right either by following the 15,000 BMW intervals or used the wrong oil."
So the tech is saying the BMW 15k intervals could have done this?
I agree that the true cause is unknown. I think that 15K intervals with standard 5w30 conventional could do this.
I wasn't trying to prove anything other than show the OP what a sludged up engine looks like.
What are pics of a 5k GC engine and pics of a neglected engine with an unknown history supposed to tell us?
"We think the previous owner wasn't doing the oil changes right either by following the 15,000 BMW intervals or used the wrong oil."
So the tech is saying the BMW 15k intervals could have done this?
I agree that the true cause is unknown. I think that 15K intervals with standard 5w30 conventional could do this.
I wasn't trying to prove anything other than show the OP what a sludged up engine looks like.
Last edited:
A5 is the thin version of A3.
Compare the descriptions...
A1 Oil intended for use in gasoline and car + light van diesel engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.6 to 3.5 mPa.s.
A5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s.
A1 is basicly conventional oil for a Fiat or Skoda, same grade as our API SM oil, which is probally better. That's why I say it's a rip-off when synthetic oil is only A1. Better synthetic oil is A5, but the formulators/marketers make it so therere is no consistancy. PP, VSP, M1 all carried A5 at some point. Some oils say A1/A5, like Mobil 1 Extended Performance....which is nonsense...if it meets A5 it meets A1.
Good work on checking that out though. Label engineering is a frequent practice...Adding A1 to a synthetic oil label is intended to make it look like a premium product, "padding" the specs. Trust me that A1 = conventional oil or blend at best.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdetail.do?categoryId=82915479&contentId=6030819
Compare the descriptions...
A1 Oil intended for use in gasoline and car + light van diesel engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.6 to 3.5 mPa.s.
A5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s.
A1 is basicly conventional oil for a Fiat or Skoda, same grade as our API SM oil, which is probally better. That's why I say it's a rip-off when synthetic oil is only A1. Better synthetic oil is A5, but the formulators/marketers make it so therere is no consistancy. PP, VSP, M1 all carried A5 at some point. Some oils say A1/A5, like Mobil 1 Extended Performance....which is nonsense...if it meets A5 it meets A1.
Good work on checking that out though. Label engineering is a frequent practice...Adding A1 to a synthetic oil label is intended to make it look like a premium product, "padding" the specs. Trust me that A1 = conventional oil or blend at best.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdetail.do?categoryId=82915479&contentId=6030819
Originally Posted By: mva
Ok, so now where do we find A3 or even A1 dino? Once we find it, how much does it cost?
I just checked my stash, Castrol and Pennzoil USA websites and stock at a couple of local stores:
Oils meeting A3
Castrol Syntec 0W30, 5W40, 5W50
Mobil 1 5W50
Mobil 1 0W40 (not in stock)
Maxlife Full Synthetic 10W30 (old stock)
Oils meeting A1
Valvoline Synpower 5W30, 10W30
Mobil 1 10W30, 5W30, 5W20
Castrol Syntec 10W30, 5W30
None of the conventional oils I checked had A1 or A3 approval. This includes:
Pennzoil conventional, Pennzoil High Mileage, Pennzoil Truck and SUV
Valvoline conventional and Maxlife
Castrol GTX 5W20, 5W30, 10W40, 20W50
ESSO 10W30, 5W30, 15W40
Quaker State
Shell Rotella T 15W40
http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/Pennzoil Conventional.pdf
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...psd_gtx_usa.pdf
Apparently A1 and A3 specs are not that easy to meet. Even our BITOG favorite Pennzoil Platinum does not meet A1 or A3.
Can I take a break now?
But but.....
He insists that a dino works fine. He is so convinced of it that he is willing to risk your Z3M or my Z4 to prove it.
Ok, so now where do we find A3 or even A1 dino? Once we find it, how much does it cost?
I just checked my stash, Castrol and Pennzoil USA websites and stock at a couple of local stores:
Oils meeting A3
Castrol Syntec 0W30, 5W40, 5W50
Mobil 1 5W50
Mobil 1 0W40 (not in stock)
Maxlife Full Synthetic 10W30 (old stock)
Oils meeting A1
Valvoline Synpower 5W30, 10W30
Mobil 1 10W30, 5W30, 5W20
Castrol Syntec 10W30, 5W30
None of the conventional oils I checked had A1 or A3 approval. This includes:
Pennzoil conventional, Pennzoil High Mileage, Pennzoil Truck and SUV
Valvoline conventional and Maxlife
Castrol GTX 5W20, 5W30, 10W40, 20W50
ESSO 10W30, 5W30, 15W40
Quaker State
Shell Rotella T 15W40
http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/Pennzoil Conventional.pdf
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...psd_gtx_usa.pdf
Apparently A1 and A3 specs are not that easy to meet. Even our BITOG favorite Pennzoil Platinum does not meet A1 or A3.
Can I take a break now?
But but.....
He insists that a dino works fine. He is so convinced of it that he is willing to risk your Z3M or my Z4 to prove it.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
A5 is the thin version of A3.
And a zebra is a black-and-white version of a horse.
Quote:
Compare the descriptions...
A5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s.
You missed two sentences when quoting the A5 description:
Quote:
These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt.
A5 is the thin version of A3.
And a zebra is a black-and-white version of a horse.
Quote:
Compare the descriptions...
A5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s.
You missed two sentences when quoting the A5 description:
Quote:
These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: mva
Ok, so now where do we find A3 or even A1 conventional? Once we find it, how much does it cost?
I just checked my stash, Castrol and Pennzoil USA websites and stock at a couple of local stores:
Oils meeting A3
Castrol Syntec 0W30, 5W40, 5W50
Mobil 1 5W50
Mobil 1 0W40 (not in stock)
Maxlife Full Synthetic 10W30 (old stock)
Oils meeting A1
Valvoline Synpower 5W30, 10W30
Mobil 1 10W30, 5W30, 5W20
Castrol Syntec 10W30, 5W30
None of the conventional oils I checked had A1 or A3 approval. This includes:
Pennzoil conventional, Pennzoil High Mileage, Pennzoil Truck and SUV
Valvoline conventional and Maxlife
Castrol GTX 5W20, 5W30, 10W40, 20W50
ESSO 10W30, 5W30, 15W40
Quaker State
Shell Rotella T 15W40
http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/Pennzoil Conventional.pdf
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...psd_gtx_usa.pdf
Apparently A1 and A3 specs are not that easy to meet. Even our BITOG favorite Pennzoil Platinum does not meet A1 or A3.
Can I take a break now?
But but.....
He insists that a conventional works fine. He is so convinced of it that he is willing to risk your Z3M or my Z4 to prove it.
The BMW spec is for extended drains period. You BMW guys are on crack if you think your engines are some sort of miracles on earth to require synthetic oil for anything else.
All thats been claimed is conventional will work under shorter intervals. Nobody is telling this guy conventional meets the spec. Nobody is telling him to use conventional and follow the olm for 15K.
I'd think on a informative forum like this, most members would understand what the advantages of a synthetic and conventional are.
Originally Posted By: mva
Ok, so now where do we find A3 or even A1 conventional? Once we find it, how much does it cost?
I just checked my stash, Castrol and Pennzoil USA websites and stock at a couple of local stores:
Oils meeting A3
Castrol Syntec 0W30, 5W40, 5W50
Mobil 1 5W50
Mobil 1 0W40 (not in stock)
Maxlife Full Synthetic 10W30 (old stock)
Oils meeting A1
Valvoline Synpower 5W30, 10W30
Mobil 1 10W30, 5W30, 5W20
Castrol Syntec 10W30, 5W30
None of the conventional oils I checked had A1 or A3 approval. This includes:
Pennzoil conventional, Pennzoil High Mileage, Pennzoil Truck and SUV
Valvoline conventional and Maxlife
Castrol GTX 5W20, 5W30, 10W40, 20W50
ESSO 10W30, 5W30, 15W40
Quaker State
Shell Rotella T 15W40
http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/Pennzoil Conventional.pdf
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...psd_gtx_usa.pdf
Apparently A1 and A3 specs are not that easy to meet. Even our BITOG favorite Pennzoil Platinum does not meet A1 or A3.
Can I take a break now?
But but.....
He insists that a conventional works fine. He is so convinced of it that he is willing to risk your Z3M or my Z4 to prove it.
The BMW spec is for extended drains period. You BMW guys are on crack if you think your engines are some sort of miracles on earth to require synthetic oil for anything else.
All thats been claimed is conventional will work under shorter intervals. Nobody is telling this guy conventional meets the spec. Nobody is telling him to use conventional and follow the olm for 15K.
I'd think on a informative forum like this, most members would understand what the advantages of a synthetic and conventional are.
If our conventional oils were Grp I based, then I'd say stay clear and go synthetic. But with high performance Grp II, II+ (II/III blends) base oils being used in conventional SM rated oils these days, I'd have no problem using conventional oil in a BMW. You wouldn't run conventionals the full oil change length (15k miles), but with the generous sump size (6 liters or more) 6-7k miles should no problem and will easily give the equivalent performance of synthetics in terms of wear and engine cleanliness.
As far as A3 and the HT/HS of 3.5. The typical SM 5w30 comes in a little lower -- around 3.1 - 3.2. But with the demonstrated high performance of 5W-20 SM conventional oils with HT/HS around 2.6, I just don't see this as a real issue to be that concerned about. There is a pretty big safety margin even down around 2.6.
Quote:
dantheoilman
Q. What durability tests have been done on this new grade of oil in excess of the warranty period?
A: Motorcraft 5W-20 was tested in the Arizona and Nevada desert heat, in Expeditions and Navigators loaded down to the max trailer towing capacity for up to 250,000 miles with extended drain intervals (15,000 miles). It was also tested in a fleet of taxis for stop-and-go testing and in the extreme colds of MinnesotA. In all cases, Motorcraft 5W-20 performed exceptionally with no oil-related failures.
Ford tested 5W-20's in 100F+ weather towing ~ 10,000lb trailers at 15,000-mile oil changes and they say the oil performed "exceptionally". If a HT/HS oil of around 2.6 can handle those conditions, I just don't see the Grp II based 30 weight SM oils that come in around 3.1-3.2 HT/HS being even close to an issue.
If one was tracking their BMW, then sure, I'd probably want to be using at least a 40 weight or a synthetic with an A3 rating to handle the extreme oil temperatures better. The case where a heavier A3 30 weight oils (or 40 wt) would be more appropriate is on turbo equipped BMW's.
The Grp II based conventional oils we have here in North America offer excellent performance and protect just as well as the synthetics (except perhaps in some really extreme scenarios), but usually aren't designed to do so for as long. Outside of NA, since Grp I based conventional oils still predominate, I would stick with synthetics.
As far as A3 and the HT/HS of 3.5. The typical SM 5w30 comes in a little lower -- around 3.1 - 3.2. But with the demonstrated high performance of 5W-20 SM conventional oils with HT/HS around 2.6, I just don't see this as a real issue to be that concerned about. There is a pretty big safety margin even down around 2.6.
Quote:
dantheoilman
Q. What durability tests have been done on this new grade of oil in excess of the warranty period?
A: Motorcraft 5W-20 was tested in the Arizona and Nevada desert heat, in Expeditions and Navigators loaded down to the max trailer towing capacity for up to 250,000 miles with extended drain intervals (15,000 miles). It was also tested in a fleet of taxis for stop-and-go testing and in the extreme colds of MinnesotA. In all cases, Motorcraft 5W-20 performed exceptionally with no oil-related failures.
Ford tested 5W-20's in 100F+ weather towing ~ 10,000lb trailers at 15,000-mile oil changes and they say the oil performed "exceptionally". If a HT/HS oil of around 2.6 can handle those conditions, I just don't see the Grp II based 30 weight SM oils that come in around 3.1-3.2 HT/HS being even close to an issue.
If one was tracking their BMW, then sure, I'd probably want to be using at least a 40 weight or a synthetic with an A3 rating to handle the extreme oil temperatures better. The case where a heavier A3 30 weight oils (or 40 wt) would be more appropriate is on turbo equipped BMW's.
The Grp II based conventional oils we have here in North America offer excellent performance and protect just as well as the synthetics (except perhaps in some really extreme scenarios), but usually aren't designed to do so for as long. Outside of NA, since Grp I based conventional oils still predominate, I would stick with synthetics.
As far as the sludged BMW engines. These engines always have a spotty maintenance history. What oils were run and how long? In the early 2000's many conventional 10w30's were still Grp I based. So some guy driving an BMW and filling it with bulk 10w30 at some fast lube place, and running 8-10k miles oil changes will almost with certainty end up with sludge in the engine. You might not even have to run that long to get some sludge buildup with a Grp I based oil.
With these Grp II/II+/III based conventionals, I can hardly see sludging up an engine even at 10k mile OCI's, unless the oil was run low and it was some extreme 10k miles conditions.
Here are some pictures of a valvetrain with 110k miles using 5W-20 conventional at 7500 miles changes … BITOG That's and oil made with Grp II+ base oils (equivalent to a Grp II/III blend), the same as conventional 5w30 SM rated oils.
With these Grp II/II+/III based conventionals, I can hardly see sludging up an engine even at 10k mile OCI's, unless the oil was run low and it was some extreme 10k miles conditions.
Here are some pictures of a valvetrain with 110k miles using 5W-20 conventional at 7500 miles changes … BITOG That's and oil made with Grp II+ base oils (equivalent to a Grp II/III blend), the same as conventional 5w30 SM rated oils.
Originally Posted By: D189379
The BMW spec is for extended drains period.
No doubt that's one of the drivers, but is the relatively high HT/HS requirement also needed for extended drains? If a long drain wasn't a concern, would BMW still require an oil with high HT/HS?
The BMW spec is for extended drains period.
No doubt that's one of the drivers, but is the relatively high HT/HS requirement also needed for extended drains? If a long drain wasn't a concern, would BMW still require an oil with high HT/HS?
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