Is PAO an advantage with a VW turbo?
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Originally Posted by wemay
But I've also read some white papers posted by Gokhan where he mentions...
Originally Posted by Gokhan
GTL seems to beat PAO in many instances as well. Go figure. GTL can have slower oxidation, less engine deposits...
It comes from the link I posted in a previous reply. Could this just be old information and advances in PAO have now widened the gap?
Is that what I said? This is like when they show video clips of politicians on CNN and Fox News making contradictory statements in the past.
Here is the link by the way:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...es-compared-to-gtl-pennz-pup#Post4977627
That's more than likely an apples vs. oranges comparison. They were comparing a 0W-20 to a 0W-40, with vastly different additive packages and VII types and contents.
I also have another old study that shows that some PAO-based oils did far worse than mineral-oil-based oils, but the conclusion was the additive package making a difference, particularly the antioxidant:
Better base oil (PAO) not necessarily better performance: A study of 5W-40 oils
But I've also read some white papers posted by Gokhan where he mentions...
Originally Posted by Gokhan
GTL seems to beat PAO in many instances as well. Go figure. GTL can have slower oxidation, less engine deposits...
It comes from the link I posted in a previous reply. Could this just be old information and advances in PAO have now widened the gap?
Is that what I said? This is like when they show video clips of politicians on CNN and Fox News making contradictory statements in the past.
Here is the link by the way:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...es-compared-to-gtl-pennz-pup#Post4977627
That's more than likely an apples vs. oranges comparison. They were comparing a 0W-20 to a 0W-40, with vastly different additive packages and VII types and contents.
I also have another old study that shows that some PAO-based oils did far worse than mineral-oil-based oils, but the conclusion was the additive package making a difference, particularly the antioxidant:
Better base oil (PAO) not necessarily better performance: A study of 5W-40 oils
Originally Posted by blingo
The Mobil 1 ain't that heavy in PAO either and so it shows by its curve about the same performance - just later in run time. No more progress beyond the non Pure Plus XHVI or whatever by Exxon? It was bogus throughout to begin insinuating with this poor pic.
That's what was more to it from your side, Gokhan.
Same performance?? No, it is not even close. Do you know the meaning of these tests? Viscosity increase by oxidation is the standard test that evaluates an oil's endurance. The difference of one oil scoring 100 hours vs. another scoring 200 hours is like, say, a 5,000-mile vs. a 10,000-mile oil-change interval (OCI) for the end user.
For example a similar test for HDEO's is the Volvo T-13 oxidation test, which there was a huge fuss about recently that even made to the Petroleum Quality Institute of America.
All oils are not created equal: Shell says Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 failed the Volvo T-13 test
The Mobil 1 ain't that heavy in PAO either and so it shows by its curve about the same performance - just later in run time. No more progress beyond the non Pure Plus XHVI or whatever by Exxon? It was bogus throughout to begin insinuating with this poor pic.
That's what was more to it from your side, Gokhan.
Same performance?? No, it is not even close. Do you know the meaning of these tests? Viscosity increase by oxidation is the standard test that evaluates an oil's endurance. The difference of one oil scoring 100 hours vs. another scoring 200 hours is like, say, a 5,000-mile vs. a 10,000-mile oil-change interval (OCI) for the end user.
For example a similar test for HDEO's is the Volvo T-13 oxidation test, which there was a huge fuss about recently that even made to the Petroleum Quality Institute of America.
All oils are not created equal: Shell says Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 failed the Volvo T-13 test
wemay
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Lol, wasn't meant that way. Just wondering if there was a leap in pao performance since. We all know PP and M1 make topnotch products.
Originally Posted by wemay
Lol, wasn't meant that way. Just wondering if there was a leap in pao performance since. We all know PP and M1 make topnotch products.
Standard PAO base stocks have been of about the same quality for a long time, even though they may vary in quality across brands, but ExxonMobil has recently introduced some that do much better than the standard ones. A new ExxonMobil PAO base stock have increased the oxidation time by a factor of 2.15. These are state-of-the-art PAO base stocks, and I don't know if they've hit the market yet or when they'll hit the market. They will outperform GTL base stocks by a factor of three or so, but they are probably very expensive.
The synthetics are coming: Base-oil quality index (BOQI) revisited
Lol, wasn't meant that way. Just wondering if there was a leap in pao performance since. We all know PP and M1 make topnotch products.
Standard PAO base stocks have been of about the same quality for a long time, even though they may vary in quality across brands, but ExxonMobil has recently introduced some that do much better than the standard ones. A new ExxonMobil PAO base stock have increased the oxidation time by a factor of 2.15. These are state-of-the-art PAO base stocks, and I don't know if they've hit the market yet or when they'll hit the market. They will outperform GTL base stocks by a factor of three or so, but they are probably very expensive.
The synthetics are coming: Base-oil quality index (BOQI) revisited
It's simply no comparison of base oils, never could be, you already came to this conclusion more or less. If there had been a Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle e.g included as a fourth and shown this behaviour later down the road, the first suspect for making of the progress would have been expected in the other departments and hardly ever in the building of "GTL". As you couldn't show the slightest connex.
But no sense in endless plays around emergency doors now. If there's something of interest about the base oils per this theater I just didn't get yet - I some day will.
Having you on my side. Good night all.
But no sense in endless plays around emergency doors now. If there's something of interest about the base oils per this theater I just didn't get yet - I some day will.
Having you on my side. Good night all.
Originally Posted by blingo
It's simply no comparison of base oils, never could be, you already came to this conclusion more or less. If there had been a Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle e.g included as a fourth and shown this behaviour later down the road, the first suspect for making of the progress would have been expected in the other departments and hardly ever in the building of "GTL". As you couldn't show the slightest connex.
But no sense in endless plays around emergency doors now. If there's something of interest about the base oils per this theater I just didn't get yet - I some day will. Having you on my side. Good night all.
PP without GTL and PP with GTL had identical additive packages. So, yes, it was a comparison of base oils in that case. In fact both versions of the PP scored about the same, which was by no accident, showing that GTL didn't result in an improvement.
See the API base-oil interchangeability guidelines on further information on this. What Pennzoil did was to interchange the slack-wax-based Group III "XHVI" base-oil with the Fischer-Tropsch-wax-based Group III "PurePlus" GTL base oil without changing the additive package and having to recertify the oil:
https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/documents/api-1509-documents
Besides, you didn't know what the test accomplished and the plot meant. You were saying that 100 hours vs. 200 hours was about the same performance, which is simply false.
It's simply no comparison of base oils, never could be, you already came to this conclusion more or less. If there had been a Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle e.g included as a fourth and shown this behaviour later down the road, the first suspect for making of the progress would have been expected in the other departments and hardly ever in the building of "GTL". As you couldn't show the slightest connex.
But no sense in endless plays around emergency doors now. If there's something of interest about the base oils per this theater I just didn't get yet - I some day will.
Having you on my side. Good night all.PP without GTL and PP with GTL had identical additive packages. So, yes, it was a comparison of base oils in that case. In fact both versions of the PP scored about the same, which was by no accident, showing that GTL didn't result in an improvement.
See the API base-oil interchangeability guidelines on further information on this. What Pennzoil did was to interchange the slack-wax-based Group III "XHVI" base-oil with the Fischer-Tropsch-wax-based Group III "PurePlus" GTL base oil without changing the additive package and having to recertify the oil:
https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/documents/api-1509-documents
Besides, you didn't know what the test accomplished and the plot meant. You were saying that 100 hours vs. 200 hours was about the same performance, which is simply false.
Same curve, just finding its turn later down the road, I wrote. Can't see the difference between mine and what you think you can make of it?
Better start reading more instead of "explaining" as many things as possible that let you hope to plow your way out of those doors to be built by plowing around.
I had asked, what you wanted to believe to be a difference in the bases that would just delay that way (+ 25h / +100h). Leading you to antioxidants of course... but to no ideas yet that would have made the bases contribute very much on the one hand, then after taking their turns suddenly no longer contribute (same curve, just later down the road...)
Better start reading more instead of "explaining" as many things as possible that let you hope to plow your way out of those doors to be built by plowing around.
I had asked, what you wanted to believe to be a difference in the bases that would just delay that way (+ 25h / +100h). Leading you to antioxidants of course... but to no ideas yet that would have made the bases contribute very much on the one hand, then after taking their turns suddenly no longer contribute (same curve, just later down the road...)
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Nothing new to read, except for bickering.
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