Is PAO an advantage with a VW turbo?

[KCJeep]

Curious if you know whether PAO stands up to turbo abuse better than all Group III oils. I do 10k OCIs on the Tiguan and have already purchased some Valvoline Euro 5w40 for it's upcoming change, but as far as I know it's Grp III entirely and later I got to thinking (the BITOG curse).

I can dump the Valvoline in the Kia no problem it's about due as well.

Only readily available Euro oil with significant PAO I can think of is Castrol 0w40 (what's in it now) are there others?

Thanks

 

[wemay]

I was doing the same with 0W-20 oils. Discovered that Mobil 1 Extended Performance and AFE each have more than the ESP X2 or Castrol EDGE LL. And you're right, the EDGE 0W-40 has more than the ~20% found in Mobil 1 0W-40 FS or even less found in EDGE 5W-40.

The consensus i received is that as long as it has the Approvals, the ingredients don't matter as much.

subscribed...

 

[Jetronic]

Sonofjoe used to say, remember that the approval testing accounts for 1 oci only. Next approval test is done on brand new parts again, but we have to deal with whatever deposits are in the engine after 1 oci, it's never going to be a new engine again.

 

[buster]

The answer is it depends. You can have a well formulated III that outperforms a poorly formulated PAO. And the opposite is true as well. Most oils are a mixture of III's, III+/PAO/V in various ratios depending on the performance objective.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by buster
The answer is it depends. You can have a well formulated III that outperforms a poorly formulated PAO. And the opposite is true as well.


But when considering the companies are the majors, i.e., Shell, ExxonMobil, Castrol etc., would we not assume their oils are well formulated?

 

[CT8]

Do a run with each oil then do used oil analysis . That wontt be the absolute ultimate test but it would be all there is that is minimally objective.

 

[sloinker]

Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by buster
The answer is it depends. You can have a well formulated III that outperforms a poorly formulated PAO. And the opposite is true as well.


But when considering the companies are the majors, i.e., Shell, ExxonMobil, Castrol etc., would we not assume their oils are well formulated?


Formulated for the lowest cost that meets the minimum testing threshold.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by sloinker
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by buster
The answer is it depends. You can have a well formulated III that outperforms a poorly formulated PAO. And the opposite is true as well.


But when considering the companies are the majors, i.e., Shell, ExxonMobil, Castrol etc., would we not assume their oils are well formulated?


Formulated for the lowest cost that meets the minimum testing threshold.


That's not really true. ExxonMobil's flagship oil is Mobil 1. Mobil 1 is custom blended and exceeds most performance specifications. Custom additive packages that go through hundreds of formulations compared to generic Euro-OEM oil blended by using a generic OEM-approved additive package from a major additive supplier.

All of the brands, whether big or small, rely on the additive companies to do the majority of the testing and formula development. Driven and I assume HPL are exceptions. Driven works with Lubrizol and Afton to develop custom formulas from components rather than market ready packages. The only differentiator is that the very large companies, like Mobil or Castrol, can afford to work with the additive companies to create custom tweaks to the market ready packages specifically for them. Their volumes enable that level of development. Mobil does a lot of in-house testing. I'm sure their subsidiary, Infineum, is actively involved.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by sloinker
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by buster
The answer is it depends. You can have a well formulated III that outperforms a poorly formulated PAO. And the opposite is true as well.
But when considering the companies are the majors, i.e., Shell, ExxonMobil, Castrol etc., would we not assume their oils are well formulated?
Formulated for the lowest cost that meets the minimum testing threshold.

At least with the brands mentioned you have assurance the oil does in fact meet the stated specification or approval. Not so with some other brands that don't have the approvals or specs, but wish you to believe that they do. When I go out and buy Mobil 1 0W-40 FS, Castrol 0W-40 or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 I know for a fact it has met all the requirements for Mercedes-Benz 229.5 and Porsche A40 approval. Not so when the "suitable for" or "recommended for" language is used.

 

[sloinker]

Formulated to the lowest cost that meets whatever spec. they are trying to achieve and not lose market share.

 

[UG_Passat]

More modern VW turbos are also water cooled and when you shut off the car, there is an auxilary pump that continues to pump the coolant to cool down the turbo, to prevent oil coking.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by KCJeep
Curious if you know whether PAO stands up to turbo abuse better than all Group III oils. I do 10k OCIs on the Tiguan and have already purchased some Valvoline Euro 5w40 for it's upcoming change, but as far as I know it's Grp III entirely and later I got to thinking (the BITOG curse).

I can dump the Valvoline in the Kia no problem it's about due as well.

Only readily available Euro oil with significant PAO I can think of is Castrol 0w40 (what's in it now) are there others?

Thanks

Mobil 1 0W-40 FS, Castrol 0W-40 or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 all carry actual Porsche A40 approval which is a very demanding approval in regards to oxidation resistance.

If someone here tells you that they can show through a PDS or SDS that one oil with an approval is superior to another with the same approval they are making it up.

 

[buster]

There are examples where the majors far exceed the specs. SEQ IIIH, Noack etc.

 

[littlehulkster]

Just buy whatever oil is on the VW approved list that's the best deal and don't worry about it. VW doesn't just hand out those approvals, if it's on the list it will work, regardless of what esoteric combination of base oils it's made of.

 

[bluestream]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
More modern VW turbos are also water cooled and when you shut off the car, there is an auxilary pump that continues to pump the coolant to cool down the turbo, to prevent oil coking.


Not all VW turbo engines have the after run coolant pump

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted by Bluestream
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
More modern VW turbos are also water cooled and when you shut off the car, there is an auxilary pump that continues to pump the coolant to cool down the turbo, to prevent oil coking.


Not all VW turbo engines have the after run coolant pump


TDi's don't have a coolant circuit, but the OP's Tiguan isn't a TDI.

 

[TiGeo]

What specifically do folks think they get with a group 4 over 3? Lower wear? Stays within viscosity longer?

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
What specifically do folks think they get with a group 4 over 3? Lower wear? Stays within viscosity longer?


I was thinking about it from the high heat due to the turbo. Was curious if PAO would be any advantage. I have had multiple used oil analysis from several vehicles with Grp III oils and the results were great. Never done one on the turbo though.

 

[edyvw]

Used Valvoline 5W40 MST in BMW X5 35d that has two turbos. Never had an issue.
That Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle is approved for MB 229.5, Porsche A40, BMW LL01, all more stringent than VW 502.00.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by KCJeep
Curious if you know whether PAO stands up to turbo abuse better than all Group III oils. I do 10k OCIs on the Tiguan and have already purchased some Valvoline Euro 5w40 for it's upcoming change, but as far as I know it's Grp III entirely and later I got to thinking (the BITOG curse).

I can dump the Valvoline in the Kia no problem it's about due as well.

Only readily available Euro oil with significant PAO I can think of is Castrol 0w40 (what's in it now) are there others?

Thanks

If everything else is the same, PAO is better of course because it has higher oxidation resistance. This results in longer oil life and less engine and turbocharger deposits.

The most-demanding specs like the Euro-OEM 0W-20 oils tend to use PAO.

The add pack still needs to be good and compatible with the base oil though.

Don't forget about POE and AN.

Castrol 0W-40 is about one-half-PAO. There is no POE or AN. The rest is Group III.

Mobil 1 0W-40 is about one-quarter-PAO. The rest is mostly GTL (Group III+++) and up to about 10% of the base oil is POE. POE can make a big difference in turbocharger and other demanding applications, as it has a very high cleaning power.

I would go with Mobil 1 0W-40.