Is BITOG an endangered species?

[JimPghPA]

The tree-huggers will have to hit the brick wall of not enough Gigawatt-hour capacity in the grid to come anywhere near close to charging all those EVs and then spend years, likely decades arguing what form of power plants to build, and then the NIMBYs will have to hit the same brick wall and spend more years, again likely decades deciding where to put them and the new high voltage power lines.

This kind of stuff progresses at a snail's pace. Look at how many new electric power plants have been built in U.S. in the last 20 years. Sure, with a drastic increase in demand there will be some pushing for new ones, but there is already a well-established resistance to putting any new electric infrastructure into place.

 

[JimPghPA]

Just last week there was a post about restrictions of charging times in a Texas area. Now keep in-mind what percent of vehicles in Texas are EV's. Then extrapolate that problem to what it will be when EV's actually make up a significant percent of the vehicles in use.

EV's are a hot topic because the environmentalists see them as being a clean way to transport people. But many of those same environmentalists have no idea what a Kilowatt-hour is or how many EV's can be now added to any specific cities gird before there just is not enough electric power to keep all the air-conditioners running in the summer, or all the heating equipment running in the winter.

They embrace the idea of the vast majority of vehicles being electric, but never stop and do the math of how much power it takes to charge them all.

There is a real physical electric limit (brick wall so to speak), that regardless of how many times those who understand the real requirements bring up the subject, they will still be ignored because building new electric infrastructure is not something the environmentalist want to hear or consider. Only when the day arrives that those EVs cannot be charged will they consider begin considering adding power sources, and then they will be screaming why have we not done that already.

 

[Rmay635703]

The problem isn’t EVs but electrically heated/cooled McMansions they use 10x-100x more power than an EV and literally no one cares that they are being built in droves across Texas, in far greater numbers than EVs.

If anyone truly cared about the grid they would care about the mass conversion of large inefficiently insulated homes to electric only HVAC. Given they don’t the grid issue with EVs is just another red herring

 

[aquariuscsm]

It'll never happen. They tried in the 70s. Didn't happen then won't happen now. Oil and gas use has been documented since around 347 AD. Maybe once this round of humanity dies off, the next round might discover electricity instead of fossil fuels.

 

[Krieg]

BITOG is a website. Not a species......

 

[Dinoburner]

Bob Is The Battery Guy - BITBG. Hard to pronounce that acronym.

Bitbug?

 

[97prizm]

Growing all the time-

New Car Registrations Show EV Ownership Rising in 2021

Even with more new cars being sold overall so far, EVs continue to build their market share.

www.thedrive.com

Ev's are 1.2% of the market.

 

[CKN]

Ev's are 1.2% of the market.

In February of 2022 they were 6% of new car sales. You can speculate as they come down in price (GM/Honda says benchmark is thirty thousand) that will grow. IMHO-6% is impressive when the acceptance and associated issues are still to be worked out.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Looking for gasoline in 5 years when most others have EVs.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It would be nice if most of you charged up so my fuels were in less demand & cost far less ...... : )

If EVs actually take over ICE, at some point demand for gasoline and oils will drastically decrease, and so will the companies who supply them. It could get to a point where if the cut-back was drastic then those products could get pretty expensive.

 

[ZeeOSix]

When EVs are widely adopted, you can bet the cost of electricity will skyrocket.

Energy companies are going to bend us over one way or the other.

They better find a way to separate EV charging power from normal household use power because the non-EV owners won't be wanting to subsidize the EV users charging at home. Separate power meter on the house for EV charging that is charged at a higher cost rate than the normal house use power.

 

[alarmguy]

Just last week there was a post about restrictions of charging times in a Texas area. Now keep in-mind what percent of vehicles in Texas are EV's. Then extrapolate that problem to what it will be when EV's actually make up a significant percent of the vehicles in use.

EV's are a hot topic because the environmentalists see them as being a clean way to transport people. But many of those same environmentalists have no idea what a Kilowatt-hour is or how many EV's can be now added to any specific cities gird before there just is not enough electric power to keep all the air-conditioners running in the summer, or all the heating equipment running in the winter.

They embrace the idea of the vast majority of vehicles being electric, but never stop and do the math of how much power it takes to charge them all.

There is a real physical electric limit (brick wall so to speak), that regardless of how many times those who understand the real requirements bring up the subject, they will still be ignored because building new electric infrastructure is not something the environmentalist want to hear or consider. Only when the day arrives that those EVs cannot be charged will they consider begin considering adding power sources, and then they will be screaming why have we not done that already.

This is why Hydrogen EVs are the answer and future. I think, we will see.
People think EVs as only battery powered,
Thus us wrong h2 vehicles are also EVs

 

[Schandyman]

Tree huggers make me laugh ev’s are the furthest from carbon neutral - they have a massive carbon footprint. I like ev’s for the purpose of what they are. One must face the facts of life anything off an assembly line that’s manufactured by man or robot has a carbon footprint. Let me correct myself cows taking a have a carbon footprint and decaying organisms

 

[Schandyman]

 

[Astro14]

If EVs actually take over ICE, at some point demand for gasoline and oils will drastically decrease, and so will the companies who supply them. It could get to a point where if the cut-back was drastic then those products could get pretty expensive.

This has already happened, many years ago, in the aviation gasoline market. Shrinking demand. One refiner. Outrageous prices.

 

[maineiac]

Which is thermodynamically difficult to say the least considering there are no free sources. What favorable pathway are you using to get this hydrogen?

But of course that’s only half the problem. The other half is the abysmal energy density and the issues with storage and distribution.

Could you explain your energy density comment? I must be misunderstanding something as everything I have read suggests hydrogen having an energy density that is at least an order of magnitude (10X) higher than lithium ion batteries. This is from a presentation by Toyota's chief scientist:

 

[alarmguy]

Could you explain your energy density comment? I must be misunderstanding something as everything I have read suggests hydrogen having an energy density that is at least an order of magnitude (10X) higher than lithium ion batteries. This is from a presentation by Toyota's chief scientist:View attachment 102366

Not only that but lithium batteries are not the source of energy, just the storage device. Hydrogen produces electricity, it doesnt store it, in fact hydrogen vehicles have much smaller scaled down lithium batteries to store some energy from the fuel cell producing the electricity. Seems to be certainly more "earth friendly" for the tree huggers than electricity produced by utility power plants. Never mind the mind blowing savings on the environment and mind blowing costs of upgrading the national electric grid will not be needed with Hydrogen.
This is one area of kudos I can give to CA ( I dont do that often) , H2 fueling stations, heck there are 3 Shell stations in Sacramento and fair amount in SanFrancisco and SanJose.
Germany leads the world right now with 80 H2 stations open.
I dont think for one second the fuel industry is going to just sit back and close up 150,000 gas stations in the USA and stop selling a product that is far superior to tying your EV to an extension cord for electricity. Not going to happen Hydrogen is the future. The current model way of charging your EV is the stepping stone.
The only issue right now is the chicken and egg thing. You need the vehicle to create the demand for H2 but you need the H2 stations to exist to fill the demand. Where as with the current EV the electric grid is there.

One last thing, Hydrogen vehicles ARE EV's just the same as current Lithium EVs. It is just a matter of where the electricity comes from.
Ok, one other thing *LOL*
Utility companies are in competition with Hydrogen because with Hydrogen you are producing your own electricity and you do not need the utility company. It actually can be a direct threat in the future as well because small fuel cells can also power a home, or a central fuel cell can power a community ... but they is way to far in the future but maybe a reason for utility companies to try to stamp out H2\

Yeah, I think to much ...
and now if you excuse we I have to go to the doctors office to have some blood taken out of my veins. *LOL*

 

[Schandyman]

We need top engineers to perfect an Alternative fuel vehicle what I would call "AFV" that should be used in congested cities for public transport and local deliveries. Battery, hydrogen or even compressed air.

 

[dwasifar]

They better find a way to separate EV charging power from normal household use power because the non-EV owners won't be wanting to subsidize the EV users charging at home. Separate power meter on the house for EV charging that is charged at a higher cost rate than the normal house use power.

I think that's farfetched.

To translate it into ICE terms, imagine drivers of fuel-efficient cars demanding inefficient SUVs and pickups get charged more at the gas pump to penalize them for driving the prices up, and enforcing it with different filler neck and pump nozzle designs.

 

[Rmay635703]

Could you explain your energy density comment? I must be misunderstanding something as everything I have read suggests hydrogen having an energy density that is at least an order of magnitude (10X) higher than lithium ion batteries. This is from a presentation by Toyota's chief scientist:View attachment 102366

Maybe in 2010
Typical hydrogen vehicles top out at about 350 miles range, Toyota’s solution was to increase the size of the car to make it up to about 400 miles range but at lower efficiency.

Hydrogen tanks do not package well and have to be replaced at high cost every 10-15 years (sound familiar)

So based on physics and the real world it’s rather difficult to fit lots of 200lb armored hydrogen tanks all over the car without risking a dangerous situation