The increase in filter size will help with engine longevity by exactly the same amount that a smaller filter will reduce start-up wear.
"Is bigger better"?
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Originally Posted By: surfstar
The increase in filter size will help with engine longevity by exactly the same amount that a smaller filter will reduce start-up wear.
Shouldn't be any start-up wear regardless of the filter's size if the ADBV works correctly.
The increase in filter size will help with engine longevity by exactly the same amount that a smaller filter will reduce start-up wear.
Shouldn't be any start-up wear regardless of the filter's size if the ADBV works correctly.
Originally Posted By: Jakegday
to the 3.8 owners; maybe its just my grand prix, but dont you worry about your engine mount slowly giving out over time, causing the engine to sit an inch (maybe 2) lower, thus making it nearly impossible to get the longer filter off, without a reciprocating saw? (not that ive ever been there, lol)
No, I fix cars for a living. I ain't skeered, lol.
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
I use the PF-52 instead of the PF-47 on my Equinox. 3.4 Liter is essentially the same engine at the 3.8. I say use the bigger filter and enjoy it.
The 3400 is no where near the same engine as the 3800.
to the 3.8 owners; maybe its just my grand prix, but dont you worry about your engine mount slowly giving out over time, causing the engine to sit an inch (maybe 2) lower, thus making it nearly impossible to get the longer filter off, without a reciprocating saw? (not that ive ever been there, lol)
No, I fix cars for a living. I ain't skeered, lol.
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
I use the PF-52 instead of the PF-47 on my Equinox. 3.4 Liter is essentially the same engine at the 3.8. I say use the bigger filter and enjoy it.
The 3400 is no where near the same engine as the 3800.
At one time or another, I have used a larger/oversized filter in all of my vehicles. Most of the time it was because I couldn't get the exact filter for my application and purchaced an allowable/oversized filter.
For my particular OCI's, it probably doesn't matter which filter I use. And in only one vehicle(on several instances) that I can comment on is: My '04 Nissan Altima w/ QR25DE(2.5L 4 cyl). Each time I have use the LARGEST oversized filter, I experienced startup rattle so, I have stopped using largest filters in this application.
I use for example: Purolator #14610 or a bit larger #14459 which is OK too. But, when I used(past tence) the now discontinued, # 24458 larger/largest filter for my application, is when I experienced too much startup rattle. I had purchaced(several yrs ago) a bunch of #24458's prior to them being discontinued. I also had some #24458's leftover from a previous HONDA Accord application which also fits the Nissan. The #24458 was fine in the Honda application.
For my particular OCI's, it probably doesn't matter which filter I use. And in only one vehicle(on several instances) that I can comment on is: My '04 Nissan Altima w/ QR25DE(2.5L 4 cyl). Each time I have use the LARGEST oversized filter, I experienced startup rattle so, I have stopped using largest filters in this application.
I use for example: Purolator #14610 or a bit larger #14459 which is OK too. But, when I used(past tence) the now discontinued, # 24458 larger/largest filter for my application, is when I experienced too much startup rattle. I had purchaced(several yrs ago) a bunch of #24458's prior to them being discontinued. I also had some #24458's leftover from a previous HONDA Accord application which also fits the Nissan. The #24458 was fine in the Honda application.
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If filter size doesn't make much of a difference, "one way or the other" then why did Toyota, for example, spec a larger filter, Puro 14477 vs the PF 14476 for the later versions of the standard Camry I4. I ask this in a serious way, manufacturers must have some sort of guidelines on minimum filter sizes. Be nice to know what they are and why.
The only real data I have is G team stuff from GM. They said back in 2003 that with their new engines (4.8,5.3,6.0) they spec'd a smaller filter because it was unnecessary to have a bigger one. No gain, in other words.
Note they still spec a magnetic drain plug. But as said earlier, there really is no quantitative difference, just a "feeling" that bigger is better.
Note they still spec a magnetic drain plug. But as said earlier, there really is no quantitative difference, just a "feeling" that bigger is better.
I suppose the other side of the coin is reflected on the 150 K I put on a 67 VW which had no filter at all, just a screen. Not, shall we say, a very "tight" engine.
How do you know which PF52's are not e-cores, I thought they switched over to E-cores years ago. That's why im still curious if anyone know's what the longer 10111 purolators are.
Honda put a larger oil filter on the S2000 right from the factory, it's the largest filter on any Honda gas engine. So if Honda thought to put a larger oil filter on the S2000 than it did on any of its other cars then I do think larger is better and so does Honda. That is why I use a Baldwin B7042 oil filter on my S2000, it's over twice as large as the stock S2000 oil filter.
Here are some pic's of a Honda S2000 filter, Napa filter and my Baldwin filter
http://s949.photobucket.com/albums/ad338/rrounds/Oil Filters/
ROD
Here are some pic's of a Honda S2000 filter, Napa filter and my Baldwin filter
http://s949.photobucket.com/albums/ad338/rrounds/Oil Filters/
ROD
well, they say that if you really believe it then it's true!
(for you)
(for you)
At the risk of beating a dead horse, something caused Toyota to spec a larger flter for essentially the same engine in '02, and back spec that filter as well. I can see the back spec being just an inventory simplification, but the "upgrade" must have been for a good reason.
It should be obvious that there will be isolated instances exactly as described. It's good to know that mfgrs are aware of their issues and trying to solve them.
But there is still no measurable benefit to any ordinary car to enlarge the filter.
But there is still no measurable benefit to any ordinary car to enlarge the filter.
Originally Posted By: 00firebird
How do you know which PF52's are not e-cores, I thought they switched over to E-cores years ago. That's why im still curious if anyone know's what the longer 10111 purolators are.
If you look down the middle of the filter, if you see a black plastic "cage" with lots of visible media it is an e-core. If you see silver perforated metal like most filters it's not an e-core.
The AC Delco PF52's I recently inspected at AAP were not e-cores, I think you can get them elsewhere as well.
How do you know which PF52's are not e-cores, I thought they switched over to E-cores years ago. That's why im still curious if anyone know's what the longer 10111 purolators are.
If you look down the middle of the filter, if you see a black plastic "cage" with lots of visible media it is an e-core. If you see silver perforated metal like most filters it's not an e-core.
The AC Delco PF52's I recently inspected at AAP were not e-cores, I think you can get them elsewhere as well.
Originally Posted By: 00firebird
How do you know which PF52's are not e-cores, I thought they switched over to E-cores years ago. That's why im still curious if anyone know's what the longer 10111 purolators are.
The classic series are not ecores. You can tell when it is an ecore filter when it has an e at the end of the name. I have PF-52s, the ecores are labeled PF-52e. Rockauto still has the older version of ac-delcos so I stocked up last time when I needed a thermostat.
How do you know which PF52's are not e-cores, I thought they switched over to E-cores years ago. That's why im still curious if anyone know's what the longer 10111 purolators are.
The classic series are not ecores. You can tell when it is an ecore filter when it has an e at the end of the name. I have PF-52s, the ecores are labeled PF-52e. Rockauto still has the older version of ac-delcos so I stocked up last time when I needed a thermostat.
why would they make both still? Also from some of the oil links i'm seeing the cages are only visible when you have it disassembled?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/EMac1/3filters.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/EMac1/3filters.jpg
Car makers call for a certain filter for a reason, it has to do with oil pressure, every person here probably knows that more oil pressure equals a happier engine, by sticking a longer/ bigger filter on all you are doing is wasting money by having to use more oil and loosing much needed oil pressure at the same time, the difference may not be huge but like I said there is a reson the car makers call for a exact oil filter, in this case it't the T26 and the filter you are talking about is a T27 lol those are the TEXACO numbers that's how I know my filters by, also the t26 is a fram 3387a and the t27 is fram 4011, I can give lots of other examples also of filters that can be crossed on all kinds of cars but I don't want to bore you people with my mumbo jumbo.
I like stick with factory size or what ever size made for that engine, those engineers made what best for the engine, dont out think them
Originally Posted By: boosted
Car makers call for a certain filter for a reason, it has to do with oil pressure, every person here probably knows that more oil pressure equals a happier engine, by sticking a longer/ bigger filter on all you are doing is wasting money by having to use more oil and loosing much needed oil pressure at the same time, the difference may not be huge but like I said there is a reson the car makers call for a exact oil filter, in this case it't the T26 and the filter you are talking about is a T27 lol those are the TEXACO numbers that's how I know my filters by, also the t26 is a fram 3387a and the t27 is fram 4011, I can give lots of other examples also of filters that can be crossed on all kinds of cars but I don't want to bore you people with my mumbo jumbo.
what about from puro 10111 then ? Half this thread is yeah do it, now you two are saying don't do it. lol.
Car makers call for a certain filter for a reason, it has to do with oil pressure, every person here probably knows that more oil pressure equals a happier engine, by sticking a longer/ bigger filter on all you are doing is wasting money by having to use more oil and loosing much needed oil pressure at the same time, the difference may not be huge but like I said there is a reson the car makers call for a exact oil filter, in this case it't the T26 and the filter you are talking about is a T27 lol those are the TEXACO numbers that's how I know my filters by, also the t26 is a fram 3387a and the t27 is fram 4011, I can give lots of other examples also of filters that can be crossed on all kinds of cars but I don't want to bore you people with my mumbo jumbo.
what about from puro 10111 then ? Half this thread is yeah do it, now you two are saying don't do it. lol.
Originally Posted By: boosted
Car makers call for a certain filter for a reason, it has to do with oil pressure, every person here probably knows that more oil pressure equals a happier engine, by sticking a longer/ bigger filter on all you are doing is wasting money by having to use more oil and loosing much needed oil pressure at the same time ...
You don't lose oil pressure from using a bigger oil filter. In fact, a larger oil filter may reduce the flow restriction which in turn will make the positive displacement oil pump work a little less hard to pump the same volume down the oil circuit. If less restrictive, it will also give you more oil pressure when the oil pump is in pressure relief mode.
Car makers call for a certain filter for a reason, it has to do with oil pressure, every person here probably knows that more oil pressure equals a happier engine, by sticking a longer/ bigger filter on all you are doing is wasting money by having to use more oil and loosing much needed oil pressure at the same time ...
You don't lose oil pressure from using a bigger oil filter. In fact, a larger oil filter may reduce the flow restriction which in turn will make the positive displacement oil pump work a little less hard to pump the same volume down the oil circuit. If less restrictive, it will also give you more oil pressure when the oil pump is in pressure relief mode.
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