You are right, there definitely is an advantage to the synthetic component of the MC 5w20. But it sounds like it'd be even better to run Mobil 1 5w30. Perhaps Mobil 1 10w30 would even pump as well as the Motorcraft 5w20.
Is 5W20 a CAFE oil or better technology?
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Why does it matter what oil weight a car takes in another country? If someone told me I can add xx to my car and it will improve my fuel economy, help the environment, gain some HP and not have a drastic change in wear why wouldn't I want to do use it?
So far all of the used oil analysis that we see seem to support that no major increase in wear has occured due to the new weight so I'll have my cake and eat it too!
[ January 22, 2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Surprise ]
So far all of the used oil analysis that we see seem to support that no major increase in wear has occured due to the new weight so I'll have my cake and eat it too!
[ January 22, 2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Surprise ]
Because it's interesting to know that the SAME EXACT engine that specifies 5w30/10w-30 in the U.S. specifies a 40-weight in another country...just lets you know that the rating is pretty much CAFE oriented.
By the way, 5w-20 is a CAFE oil, and while it's not really a better technology, the spec. it must meet is superior in relation to the standard 5w30 spec.
And, while I'm rambling, I feel 5w-20 is fine is a new , high rpm, low torque engine (Honda) that runs very well and doesn't cosume oil.
Older engines, ones that lug, ones that pull heavy loads...consider the use of a different oil.
That's fine. But that's different from some grease monkey trying to tell you that your engine MUST run on 5w-20, and that a 5w30/40 will not offer as good of a protection.
I don't think the "same" engines you all are talking about are made at the same plants to the same specs though. Are engines for Fords in Europe made in US plants? Or vice versa? Howevere, there ARE certain engines from various manufactureres that are made in the same plants and used in worldwide markets that spec different grades of oil. If I had a Ford or Honda, I would run 5w-20 with no hesitation because UOA has proven they are a great recipe, CAFE or not. I don't think we've seen any, or more than 1 or 2, bad UOA using 5w-20 in an engine that is speced for it.
I've tried havoline 5w20 in my 98 f150 at 103k miles. Seems to run fine so far....
(1) The original poster claimed that 5w30 will harm a Ford engine.
(2) And yet in Germany, Ford engines (which are exactly the same design) are running 5w30... as *recommended* by Ford.
(3) So this indicates that the original poster's claim was wrong. Running 5w30 will NOT harm a Ford engine.
ASIDE: I also find it fascinating the Europeans are running 12,000 mile intervals!!! Holy crap! That certainly demolishes the Jiffy Lube "every 3000 miles" myth.
[ January 22, 2004, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: batterycar ]
I agree with ALJAMES. He raises a good point. People that like and push THICK oil are THICK headed IMO.
Look, how many times does this subject have to be beat into the ground? Molekule and even race teams have proven that anything above a 4cst oil can be run in an engine unless othewise stated. Some oils prefer thicker oils but if any would take the time to read through the 20wt used oil analysis they would find they are among the BEST, period. Mobil's 0w-20 is extremely impressive.
Look, how many times does this subject have to be beat into the ground? Molekule and even race teams have proven that anything above a 4cst oil can be run in an engine unless othewise stated. Some oils prefer thicker oils but if any would take the time to read through the 20wt used oil analysis they would find they are among the BEST, period. Mobil's 0w-20 is extremely impressive.
Yep, and some car manufacturers in Europe have gone up to 30K km (20K mile) intervals by now, or once every 2 years, whichever comes first. A bunch of others run on variable intervals, which all average way above 10K miles as well.
Of course, they only use high-quality synthetic oils manufactured to strict requirements of car makers, hence all the GM, BMW, VW, MB approvals. They also run rather thicker oils. Grades like 5w-50 or 10w-60 are very common. Both my Dad's '99 2-liter Nissan and my mom's '03 2.0T Volvo run on Castrol TWS 10w-60 - that's what the dealer uses.
I'm not quite sure that such long drain intervals are healthy either. There are environmental issues at play there, too. In order to limit the amounts of used oil people's cars produce, they tell you to change it less often.
But yeah, if they hear of anyone changing their oil every 3K miles, they burst out laughing.
[ January 22, 2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Quattro Pete ]
Of course, they only use high-quality synthetic oils manufactured to strict requirements of car makers, hence all the GM, BMW, VW, MB approvals. They also run rather thicker oils. Grades like 5w-50 or 10w-60 are very common. Both my Dad's '99 2-liter Nissan and my mom's '03 2.0T Volvo run on Castrol TWS 10w-60 - that's what the dealer uses.
I'm not quite sure that such long drain intervals are healthy either. There are environmental issues at play there, too. In order to limit the amounts of used oil people's cars produce, they tell you to change it less often.
But yeah, if they hear of anyone changing their oil every 3K miles, they burst out laughing.
[ January 22, 2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Quattro Pete ]
Vice-versa... people who claim running 5w30 will DAMAGE your engine are suffering Brain DAMAGE.
P.S. I run 5W-20 in my Honda Insight Hybrid. I do so to achieve high MPGs, but I'm not afraid to run 5w30 if necessary. I'm not stupid enough to think that a *slightly* thicker oil will damage the engine... as some people here are.
Patman
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It's funny how so many people are afraid to run 5w20, but yet will run a conventional 5w30 oil which ends up thinning out to a 5w20 anyways. And in the process, leaves behind a little bit of a mess each time thanks to the shearing of the VIIs.
My main reason for feeling that 5W20 is motivated by CAFE is in the wording of the EPAs rules on running 5W20 for fuel economy trials;
If it were truly the best choice, I don't feel that they would have to make rules like that... Not saying it's not good, just not best.
mf, good information here.
There was a thread last year that explained that american engines are made with the top ring located higher on the piston for US emissons. It runs hotter in that location which is harder on oil.
I find it interesting that 5w30 conventional takes such a beating in these discussions that big brother Mobil 1 5w30 is brought in for support. Doesn't comparing 5w-20 to synthetic support the point that it's not ALL about CAFE, and 5w-20 is a better technology.
I'm looking forward to a used oil analysis of 5w-20 in a truck towing a good size trailer. It seems that is the last myth to be address.
There was a thread last year that explained that american engines are made with the top ring located higher on the piston for US emissons. It runs hotter in that location which is harder on oil.
I find it interesting that 5w30 conventional takes such a beating in these discussions that big brother Mobil 1 5w30 is brought in for support. Doesn't comparing 5w-20 to synthetic support the point that it's not ALL about CAFE, and 5w-20 is a better technology.
I'm looking forward to a used oil analysis of 5w-20 in a truck towing a good size trailer. It seems that is the last myth to be address.
It seems obvious that CAFE is the driving force that led to Ford's use of 5w20. Then their engineers would be tasked to make sure the engines would handle it. Maybe a higher volume oil pump, tighter clearances, maybe nothing. One thing is for sure, they can only tighten clearances so much before the cold oil (especially in winter) is not going to make it through. Frankly, I don't think they have a whole lot of room to play with on engine clearances expecially considering that on cold flow the 5w20 should be about the same as the 5w30 they formerly specified.
I think Ford felt it built "a better mousetrap" by developing their specified 5W-20 oils in lieu of the 5w30 conventional oils most people will use. It accomplished several things. First it did help them score brownie points with the EPA for mileage and emissions by making a more "stable" oil. But also by developing a standard higher quality oil people who lease cars and do the minimum amount of maintenance will at least be returning the cars with the engines not so beat up from only doing the minimum oil changes using the cheapest 5w30 or whatever grade DINO. And actually the same applies for "purchased" cars traded in. When comparing a typical 5w30 conventional to the Ford spec'd 5W-20, the 5W-20 is a higher quality oil. And yes it costs slightly more but it's a lot less than the "synthetics". Thus more people are likely to use it then they would use "synthetics in a leased vehicle. Especially since Ford does "strongly" recommend using an oil with their specific specifications for warranty purposes.
But hey! this is just the ramblings of a BITOG addict
Whimsey
But hey! this is just the ramblings of a BITOG addict
Whimsey
As far as I am concerned, your discussion with the above-named persons is about the same as talking to the local redneck in his backyard. Maybe a *little* better, but not by much. REASON: My experience with dealer mechanics is that they are incredibly non-knowledgeable... most can't even do a simple oil change correctly.
NOTE: I said "most" not all, so if you are a good dealer mechanic, then I'm not talking about you.
I won't consider any "proof" that 5W-20 is installed for a reason unless it comes from an engineer or a peer-reviewed research paper.
TallPaul, Actually when comparing 5w30 conventional, such as Motorcraft 5w30 to the Motorcraft 5W-20 the cold pumpabilty is quite different. The 5w30's is 28,500cp@-35*C. The 5W-20 is 18,000cp@-35*C. Just for comparison Mobil 1 5w30 is 12,700cp@-35*C. So you can see that there is quite a difference in the true measure of cold weather performance. The quicker the oil pumps into the engine in the cold, the better for the engine I would assume. It minimizes those nasty cold start sounds
Whimsey
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