Ford F150 2015+ 5.0 Actually Have Tighter Clearances [or 5w20 Just for CAFE? ]

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by demarpaint

Clearances are virtually unchanged. On the 2011 5.0 the crank bearing clearance is .025-.045mm and the 2020 5.0 is .025-.045mm.



Yep, the fully imported (for us) Ford Mustang with the 5.0L V8 is spec'd 5W30 by Ford Australia. To be precise a full synthetic 5W30 that carries ACEA A5/B5 and Ford 913-D spec, which is a high zinc oil (~ 1000 ppm).

Lots of 5W20 and 0W20 here now days, so it's not for lack of thinner oils.

If you want to keep your warranty with Ford Australia, best to run a 5W30 with 913-D.


Hi SR5. " Ford Australia" sounds pretty authoritative. Here is the 2019 Mustang owners manual on the Ford Australia website. (the picture of the car showed a right hand drive Mustang.) I can't seem to see where they spec 5W30. Can you help me out? Thanks.


http://www.fordservicecontent.com/F...01&VIN=&userMarket=AUS&div=f

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by Ignatius
strictly for CAFE and not even for fuel economy

what do you think the "FE" in CAFE is?

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
So we now have about 10 years worth of 4.6 liter modular engine production staring in the year 2000, as well as 10 years of 5.0 production, all with the owner manuals recommending 5w20. Do we feel the 4.6 engines failed prematurely? Are there any class action suites going on? Surely some must have 200,000 miles by now.

Disclosure: I have 5w30 in my 2005 Taurus.What the heck.

Two points:

First - I'm confident in my statement that the ones that have failed by now were filled with xw20, and the ones that are still running have been fed with 30 or 40.

Second - You'll see exactly what I mean when you compare the mains and big ends out of a 200k mile car that was fed xw20, vs one that was fed xw30/40 - measure the thickness of those shells and tell me which oil protects better.

 

[Snagglefoot]

So how about it. Would anyone like to tell us how many miles they achieved on their 4.6 using 5w20 oil before they sold it, or it got wrecked, or it failed from something and got junked. The best data comes from Bittogers themselves.

 

[wtd]

Most people are never going to experience an engine failure due to using 5W-20. The more likely scenario is that the rest of the vehicle will fall apart way before the engine does and is why it is sent to the scrap yard.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by Ignatius
strictly for CAFE and not even for fuel economy

what do you think the "FE" in CAFE is?


Higher iron (FE) in uoa due to thin oil causing more wear

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by Fallguy


I still suspect its all mostly just for CAFE but would like to hear from anyone with engine building experience/knowledge of the specs on the items above.

regards,


why is this discussion still going on? seriously, ford switch to 20 weight oils 20 years ago.

sure, better fuel economy was certainly a factor in the decision. So what?





Ford did have to switch back to a 5w30 on some of the engines.... .


Mainly turbocharged ones...

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
So we now have about 10 years worth of 4.6 liter modular engine production staring in the year 2000, as well as 10 years of 5.0 production, all with the owner manuals recommending 5w20. Do we feel the 4.6 engines failed prematurely? Are there any class action suites going on? Surely some must have 200,000 miles by now.

Disclosure: I have 5w30 in my 2005 Taurus.What the heck.

Two points:

First - I'm confident in my statement that the ones that have failed by now were filled with xw20, and the ones that are still running have been fed with 30 or 40.

...


An ignorant comment with no basis in fact...

 

[dogememe]

Yeah, the 4.6 being back specced to 5w-20, along with many other Ford engines, probably caused 0 actual failures due to the thinner oil. That said, in some use cases, I suspect that switch to thinner oil in engines originally designed for 5w-30 did cause increased wear in some engines. Not enough to destroy the engine, especially in an excellent engine like the 4.6. I have paperwork proof that both my retired cop car Crown Vics were filled with bulk semi synthetic 5w-30, even though they specced 5w-20. I continued the trend and uses 5w-30 or 0w-30 with great results, and I suspect I'm harder in my cars than cops.

Plenty of Modular engines, 4.6/5.4/6.8 have 200k+ in RVs, cop cars, taxis, etc. Some get 5w-20 as specced and some get 5w-30. In either case, they live a long and happy life. 200k is easy and 300k+ is common. The occasional timing chain goes bad and some of the early ones launch out spark plugs but neither of these things can be attributed to 5w-20.

 

[dieselguy67]

I bought a 2019 Ford F-250 with the 6.2 gasser.
Recommend 5w30. Just a few years before it was 5w20.
Ford went up a grade for a reason and no turbo on this V8.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted by Fallguy
I hear those that are against using 5w30 state that newer Fords have tighter clearances. But then they never advise what the old/new clearance difference are. I do not know much of clearances but would be most interesting to find out.

(1.) Is it verifiable that ford clearances have changed/tightened ( in particular ford 5.0 2015+ ).

(2.) Is thinner oil 5w20 required for tighter clearances so the oil can get in between better and pump up a better hydrodynamic wedge?

I still suspect its all mostly just for CAFE but would like to hear from anyone with engine building experience/knowledge of the specs on the items above.

regards,

The engine in my 07 F150 is a 4.2 V6. It was produced 1997-2008. In all of those years of production the clearances and tolerances never changed. It was spec'd 5W30 oil 1997-2000. Sometime in 2000 they spec'd 5W20 for 2000-2008 engines, and back spec'd 5W20 for earlier engines. The change was only for CAFE reasons.
So, in your case it could very well be a CAFE reason.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by demarpaint

Clearances are virtually unchanged. On the 2011 5.0 the crank bearing clearance is .025-.045mm and the 2020 5.0 is .025-.045mm.



Yep, the fully imported (for us) Ford Mustang with the 5.0L V8 is spec'd 5W30 by Ford Australia. To be precise a full synthetic 5W30 that carries ACEA A5/B5 and Ford 913-D spec, which is a high zinc oil (~ 1000 ppm).

Lots of 5W20 and 0W20 here now days, so it's not for lack of thinner oils.

If you want to keep your warranty with Ford Australia, best to run a 5W30 with 913-D.


Hi SR5. " Ford Australia" sounds pretty authoritative. Here is the 2019 Mustang owners manual on the Ford Australia website. (the picture of the car showed a right hand drive Mustang.) I can't seem to see where they spec 5W30. Can you help me out? Thanks.


http://www.fordservicecontent.com/F...01&VIN=&userMarket=AUS&div=f


Hi Mate,
Yes that manual says nothing about viscosity that I could find.

I talk to the Ford people themselves or alternatively use the Australian Castrol / Nulon / Valvoline / Penrite lube guides, and they all point to a 5W30 Ford 913-D oil. I once wrote to these online people and questioned their recommendations (based on different USA recommendations), they then contacted the Australian car company who confirmed their local (and different to USA) oil selection as being required for warranty. They can not recommend an oil that does not meet local warranty requirements.

Type in 2019 Ford Mustang 5.0 into Valvoline Australia and you get
Quote
SynPower FE 5W-30 is a premium full synthetic engine oil designed for use in modern Ford engines with the intent to reduce exhaust emissions and improve fuel efficiency calling for Ford WSS-M2C-913-D, C, B and A. Also suitable for other passenger cars where ACEA A5/B5 or API SL/CF is recommended.


Go to any of the other oil brands and they also return a 5W30 Ford 913-D oil, question their selection and they will ask Ford Australia and get back to you confirming a Ford 913-D oil. You can always email Ford Australia yourself if you want. I'm happy to stand corrected if they say otherwise to you.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by wtd
Most people are never going to experience an engine failure due to using 5W-20. The more likely scenario is that the rest of the vehicle will fall apart way before the engine does and is why it is sent to the scrap yard.

Not everywhere is the salt belt. Pickup trucks in the South aren't sent to the junk yard with good engines unless they were in a crash. Anything you can do to make an engine last longer is a benefit.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by SR5
Yep, the fully imported (for us) Ford Mustang with the 5.0L V8 is spec'd 5W30 by Ford Australia. To be precise a full synthetic 5W30 that carries ACEA A5/B5 and Ford 913-D spec, which is a high zinc oil (~ 1000 ppm).

Lots of 5W20 and 0W20 here now days, so it's not for lack of thinner oils.

If you want to keep your warranty with Ford Australia, best to run a 5W30 with 913-D.


Hi SR5. " Ford Australia" sounds pretty authoritative. Here is the 2019 Mustang owners manual on the Ford Australia website. (the picture of the car showed a right hand drive Mustang.) I can't seem to see where they spec 5W30. Can you help me out? Thanks.

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/F...01&VIN=&userMarket=AUS&div=f


Go look at the 2016 Mustang Australian OM under "Capacities and Specifications". It shows 5W-30 for the 5.0L Coyote.

For some reason, they took all the oil specs out of the 2017+ OMs.

Ford OMs for Aussie vehicles:
https://www.ford.com.au/owners/owner-manual/

 

[aquariuscsm]

There was a bulletin of some kind put out by Ford a time ago to use 10W40 to quiet down noisy engines.

 

[ka9mnx]

"Also suitable for other passenger cars where ACEA A5/B5 or API SL/CF is recommended."
API SL/CF in 2020?

 

[stanlee]

Ford's change in oil weight structure was COMPLETELY CAFE/gas mileage related. They didn't change to lower weight for one engine. They did it across the board for everything that had an oil pump that still pumped well with lower weight oil.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by wtd
Most people are never going to experience an engine failure due to using 5W-20. The more likely scenario is that the rest of the vehicle will fall apart way before the engine does and is why it is sent to the scrap yard.

Not everywhere is the salt belt. Pickup trucks in the South aren't sent to the junk yard with good engines unless they were in a crash. Anything you can do to make an engine last longer is a benefit.


My 01' Mercury has 220,200 miles or so on it - all in the "salt belt". It has almost certainly had 5W-20 (conventional/syn-blend) for the vast majority of its oil changes and it hums along fine...

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Originally Posted by stanlee
Ford's change in oil weight structure was COMPLETELY CAFE/gas mileage related. They didn't change to lower weight for one engine. They did it across the board for everything that had an oil pump that still pumped well with lower weight oil.



If they're calling for 5W-30, then yes it is! 5W-30 was "CAFE Driven"...

And 5W-20 was recommended as winter fill in the 1960's by GM at least, pre_CAFE...

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
"Also suitable for other passenger cars where ACEA A5/B5 or API SL/CF is recommended."
API SL/CF in 2020?

That is all to do with the API restrictions on Phos levels (ZDDP) where as ACEA doesn't have nearly as restrictive chemical limits.

A Ford 913-D oil must start out as a full synthetic ACEA A5/B5 (and SN) oil, then Ford add extra requirements on top to make it even stronger. The TBN minimum of 8 (under ACEA) is then increased to a min of 10 under Ford (for long oil life) and the ZDDP is increased to ~1000 ppm (from the SN of ~800 ppm) to reduce engine wear and improve timing chain life. Unfortunately this last increase (in ZDDP) pushes the oil outside of the API SN & ILSAC GF-5 chemical limits, even though it easily passes all of their quality tests. Note these chemical limits only apply to ILSAC grades (xW20, xW30) of oil and non-ILSAC grades (xW40, xW50) are not restricted so oils like M1 0W40 can and do have ~1000 ppm ZDDP while still being classified as API SN.

Ford 913-D is an excellent oil, full synthetic 5W30, Passing Euro A5/B5 (which not every Dexos1 oil can pass), with extra TBN to make it a long life oil (similar to oils like M1 EP or AP) and extra ZDDP to reduce engines wear. It is a Ford global spec oil, that is used all around the world, except in the homelands of Ford.

Can you even get Ford 913-D oil in North America?
I buy it here whenever it's on special, we get it as Valvoline SynPower, Castrol Magnatec, Shell Helix, plus Penrite and Nulon. It's the Ford oil to use here (Oz & NZ) and in much of Europe too I believe.

It's the oil Ford Australia put in your new Mustang when you bring it in for a dealer service. Both the V8 and the EcoBoost.