Is 5W20 a CAFE oil or better technology?

[mf150]

quote:

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Originally posted by TallPaul:
I think the cam lube issue is more of a startup issue. Once the engine is running and warmed up the cam lube should not be a problem. Probably could go with even a 10w30 and add a preluber for security to ensure the cam gets lube quick on startup. As for me, I'll sick with the old tried and true cam in block design.

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With the OHCs, we need lubrication at higher rpms, too. That is the supposed problem with a higher viscocity oil in these engine.

But, I have seen 4.6L Tritons and Mustang motors go for hunderds of thousands of miles. They are bullet proof.

 

[G-MAN]

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Originally posted by greencrew:
Is it a pure PAO basestock? No, it has mineral binders for the additive package. NO synthetic PAO available is PURE. PAO basestocks do not naturally want to mix with the additive packages. This is why the mineral oils are used for the binder. Do PAO basestocks have any conflict with seals? Seals are designed to be in oil. PAO basestocks do nothing for the seals therefore the seals don't swell as designed . This is why ALL PAO basestocks also contain esters to swell the seals just like dino oils do.

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This statement is so far off base it's not even funny. A PAO basestock is just that: it's pure PAO. It may be mixed with esters to formulate a specific base "package" for a particular oil, but neat PAO does NOT contain any esters.

As for additive miscibility, esters are now used for that as well. We are two generations away from the last Mobil 1 that used mineral oil as an additive carrier. Mobil 1 SuperSyn is comprised of PAO, base esters, miscibility esters, and the additives. It has no mineral oil in it.

 

[cvl]

As for Honda, they recommend 5w-20 dino oil for thier K20A3 engine in the US, but 5w-40 semi-synthetic in the UK. The UK has much cooler temperatures than the US and much less potential for sustained high-speed driving. 5w-20 is for CAFE. Not only do manufacturers have to pay fines for not meeting CAFE regs, they actually get credit for exceeding them.

 

[greencrew]

quote:

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Originally posted by ZiTS:
Sorta blows a hole in the theory that it's a great oil for V-8 4.6L DOHC GT's, let alone a Cobra or pick-up:
"Mobil 1 0W-20 is the ideal product for high revolution and output four and six cylinder cars where a 0W-20 or 5W-20 viscosity lubricant is recommended."

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I'll comment on this because I have seat of the pants experience driving a 56hp four cylinder. To get anywhere you drive at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle half the time, with a lot of WOT. Those engines take a beating just so you can keep up with traffic. I also put a lot of miles on an F-150 with 260hp, and it's not a good idea to hold 3/4 throttle very long, because it gets up to 70 pretty fast. At 70mph, the rpm is under 2k. Point is, you can take a Cobra to the race track, but the little 4 cyl runs like it's at the track every day.

quote:

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Originally posted by ZiTS:
All I ask is that you look at the big picture here, and use a little common sense when forming your conclusion - not as to whether or not Xw-20 is a decent oil, but whether or not it is absolutely necessary.

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This is a good thread, but one issue I did not appreciate was 5w-30 voiding the warrantee. Since that was the previous Ford recommendaton there are millions of miles driven on that oil. We know for a fact it works fine, and can surely say there won't be any engine related problems due to running 5w-30. It's a mute point as far as I'm concerned. Even if proven beyond a reasonable doubt that 5w-20 is a better choice than 5w-30, running 5w-30 will not be proven wrong or detremental in any way.

 

[greencrew]

G-Man, good point about being two generations away from the last Mobil 1 that used mineral oil as an additive carrier. The comment is being made on 0w-20 which was first out in 03.

I agree with your comment on basestock, but I think you read the quote too quickly. It's talking about M1 itself, not the base stock used in M1. The point made is M1 is not all PAO basestock, there's more to it.

 

[mf150]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken2:
1) Ford and Honda both have their own specs for the 5W-20 which require it to pass more stringent testing than the usual GF-3, API-SL 5W-30.

2) The local county maintenance foreman puts 10W-30 in the sheriff's Crown Vic patrol cars, new and not-so-new. He's never had an engine failure, and the deputies drive like somebody else owns the car.... All the regional county foremen get together to share info, and all the counties that use 5W-20 in their Fords have had engine failures.


Ken

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Weird! A lot of my pals are running 5W30 in their NITRO'ed out cars. Some are also running 5W30 in their SC'd 4.6Ls, too. No engine problems there. Grant it, the police do cruise one hell of a lot. They also idle a lot, too.

PS what type of engine failure are you talking about?

 

[batterycar]

quote:

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Originally posted by mf150:
I changed the oil back to Red Line 5W30 and what a difference! The engine is quiet once again.

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Why did you do that? I thought you said "Ford mechanics, service advisors, and a Ford Motorsport specialist" told you to use the 5W-20?

 

[John in the ATL]

quote:

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Originally posted by mf150:
Just another question for you all. Warranty out of the picture, also clearance issues (if there are any with the 2003 4.6L GT engine), since 5W20 is a CAFE oil, would 10W30 protect my engine better than 5W30 (as far as shearing, etc.)? Remember I am using Red Line 5W30...

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The Redline 10w-30 will be slightly more shear stable than the 5w-30 (same with Amsoil). If you were going with Mobil 1, I would definately use the 10w-30. The biggest difference in shear stability between 10w-30 versus 5w-30 occurs with dino oils.

My experience with dino 5w-30 in the Hotlanta climate have shown more oil consumption with fuel economy about the same as 10w-30. I will not use 5w-30 dino.

I just purchased a Honda Odyssey and will be using the Motorcraft 5w-20 for at least 10,000 miles. I will take a semi-synthetic 5w-20 over a dino 5w-30 for the better shear stability.

 

[MNgopher]

Hashing over the same isues we've covered about a bazillion times in other threads and even with some of the same posters asking the same questions.

I'll just keep on using 5w20 in my low revving, spends its life under 2500 rpms for the most part, heavy, slow, trailer towing, heavy load towing, 4x4 4.6l V8 power F150.

As was posted so eloquently in a few posts on the first page, what is the difference between a 5w30 that will shear to a 5w20 in the end and just using a more shear stable 5w20? Nothing.

 

[mf150]

quote:

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Originally posted by greencrew:

quote:

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Originally posted by mf150:
Good to see a f-150 brotha here!

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Small world (wide web). The oil knowledge base is a bit more robust over here.

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Yup, it is...that's why I love it (learning!) How's your F-150/GT?

 

[mf150]

quote:

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Originally posted by greencrew:

quote:

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Originally posted by ZiTS:
Sorta blows a hole in the theory that it's a great oil for V-8 4.6L DOHC GT's, let alone a Cobra or pick-up:
"Mobil 1 0W-20 is the ideal product for high revolution and output four and six cylinder cars where a 0W-20 or 5W-20 viscosity lubricant is recommended."

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I'll comment on this because I have seat of the pants experience driving a 56hp four cylinder. To get anywhere you drive at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle half the time, with a lot of WOT. Those engines take a beating just so you can keep up with traffic. I also put a lot of miles on an F-150 with 260hp, and it's not a good idea to hold 3/4 throttle very long, because it gets up to 70 pretty fast. At 70mph, the rpm is under 2k. Point is, you can take a Cobra to the race track, but the little 4 cyl runs like it's at the track every day.

quote:

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Originally posted by ZiTS:
All I ask is that you look at the big picture here, and use a little common sense when forming your conclusion - not as to whether or not Xw-20 is a decent oil, but whether or not it is absolutely necessary.

---

This is a good thread, but one issue I did not appreciate was 5w-30 voiding the warrantee. Since that was the previous Ford recommendaton there are millions of miles driven on that oil. We know for a fact it works fine, and can surely say there won't be any engine related problems due to running 5w-30. It's a mute point as far as I'm concerned. Even if proven beyond a reasonable doubt that 5w-20 is a better choice than 5w-30, running 5w-30 will not be proven wrong or detremental in any way.

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I agree, epsecially with your last statement. 5W30 is fine, actually better in my engine (I have less noise now that I changed back to 5W30).

 

[mf150]

Just another question for you all. Warranty out of the picture, also clearance issues (if there are any with the 2003 4.6L GT engine), since 5W20 is a CAFE oil, would 10W30 protect my engine better than 5W30 (as far as shearing, etc.)? Remember I am using Red Line 5W30...

 

[VaderSS]

quote:

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Point is, you can take a Cobra to the race track, but the little 4 cyl runs like it's at the track every day.

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That is the truth. I had a 65HP 3KC Toyota Corolla. Driving on the interstate involved MUCH WOT.

Using a truck for an example, a 6 cyl pulling a large trailer will also be spending much more time at high loads than a V8 or a diesel.

 

[Whimsey]

quote:

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Originally posted by mf150:
Just another question for you all. Warranty out of the picture, also clearance issues (if there are any with the 2003 4.6L GT engine), since 5W20 is a CAFE oil, would 10W30 protect my engine better than 5W30 (as far as shearing, etc.)? Remember I am using Red Line 5W30...

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Since you're using Red Line already, which I understand is very shear stable, you are probably better off with staying the 5W-30. It will flow faster to lube your OHC engine than the 10W-30 upon start up. Saving you wear and tear on start ups and still remain shear stable for the OCI period. Especially since you use a 3,000-5,000 OCI I believe.

Whimsey

 

[pepper32]

Well put gopher.

 

[mf150]

quote:

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Originally posted by Whimsey:

quote:

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Originally posted by mf150:
Just another question for you all. Warranty out of the picture, also clearance issues (if there are any with the 2003 4.6L GT engine), since 5W20 is a CAFE oil, would 10W30 protect my engine better than 5W30 (as far as shearing, etc.)? Remember I am using Red Line 5W30...

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Since you're using Red Line already, which I understand is very shear stable, you are probably better off with staying the 5W-30. It will flow faster to lube your OHC engine than the 10W-30 upon start up. Saving you wear and tear on start ups and still remain shear stable for the OCI period. Especially since you use a 3,000-5,000 OCI I believe.

Whimsey

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You are correct, Thanks!

 

[mf150]

quote:

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Originally posted by batterycar:

quote:

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Originally posted by mf150:
I changed the oil back to Red Line 5W30 and what a difference! The engine is quiet once again.

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Why did you do that? I thought you said "Ford mechanics, service advisors, and a Ford Motorsport specialist" told you to use the 5W-20?

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b/c I was hearing more "engine noise" with the 5W20.

 

[mf150]

quote:

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Originally posted by MNgopher:
Hashing over the same isues we've covered about a bazillion times in other threads and even with some of the same posters asking the same questions.

I'll just keep on using 5w20 in my low revving, spends its life under 2500 rpms for the most part, heavy, slow, trailer towing, heavy load towing, 4x4 4.6l V8 power F150.

As was posted so eloquently in a few posts on the first page, what is the difference between a 5w30 that will shear to a 5w20 in the end and just using a more shear stable 5w20? Nothing.

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The reason "we" are still hashing over this topic (if you are refering to me, personally)is because IMHO I don't think we've heard anything other than well meant opinions in this thread. If there trully were an answer to this problem, we would all be doing whatever it is without second thought.

Maybe "some" don't care about their investment as much as "others" do, but I certainly take maint. seriously, especially when invest in "my" engine, drivetrain and suspens.

Does that answer some of the "others'" questions?

 

[mf150]

quote:

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Originally posted by pepper32:
Well put gopher.

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Thanks for the wonderful information.