Interesting info on M1EP

[gizzsdad]

Just talked to Mobil's help line to inquire as to availability of PDS's for EP line. He asked if my car was still in warranty. When I replied that it was, he said I CANNOT use EP until ALL manufacturer's warranties have expired because EP does not meet GL-4's fuel efficiency standards.

I don't have my owner's manual handy, but I would be shocked if it requires GL-4, but probably references the starburst. If I am not mistaken, arn't most of the premium oils we discuss here GL-3?

Sorry if this has been discussed, but this was news to me.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Of course you CAN use ANY oil you want. No one is there to stop you. You could use olive oil if you wanted. Just don't count on vehicle manufacturer's warranty coverage if they decide to be anal.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

But if your vehicle only requires API SL but NOT the ILSAC "Starburst" (don't know if any actually do) then you should have your bases covered for warranty coverage with the EP.

 

[haley10]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
But if your vehicle only requires API SL but NOT the ILSAC "Starburst" (don't know if any actually do) then you should have your bases covered for warranty coverage with the EP.

---

My 2000 Regal specs. 5-30, 10w30 Starburst only. No API SL is mentioned at all. Many manufacturers now spec. the grade and Starburst as a requirement. CAFE you know.

 

[ruking77]

The real issue seems to me, is of mileage during the warranty. Currently there are only a few American OEM's that recommend 15,000 mile OCI's. GM/Chevrolet's Corvette has been doing 15,000 mile OCI's, with OEM recommendation of 5w30 Mobil One, meeting GM 4178 M standard (GM4178 M probably doesn't matter to most folks) . While I think the new Mobil One EP is good to go; the interesting thing is the new Mobil One EP does not carry that rating. I also took a look at the Mobil One web site and also on the shelf and the new EP also meets diesel specifications!!!

Secondly, OEM's are increasingly specifying a plethora of standards.

The European market has been under the so called situational oil change (when YOUR conditions and computer indicated it is time for a change) for a while. The European economic reality is a quart (liter 33.8 0z) of oil is 10-15 dollars US.

While in some ways it is overkill, gone are the days of just looking for the latest API certification. The good news is 10,000 -15,000 mile OCI's are/becoming the new standard. The bad news is most folks don't quite believe it yet.

[ April 06, 2005, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]

 

[Bobio]

Initially when they first added Mobil 1 EP pages I do recall seeing in several places where Mobil 1 EP was only recommended for vehicles that have exceeded their factory warranty. They seemed to have toned that down and now only seem to mention to stick with the factory recommended oil change intervals if your vehicle is still under warranty.

If you use the "Help Me Decide" function to pick an oil, it does ask if your vehicle is under warranty. I chose the option for "Ultimate Protection" and if you chose "No" regarding the warranty it will suggest Mobil 1 EP but, when I went back and changed warranty to "Yes" it suggested regular Mobil 1. So it would seem Mobil would rather you not use Mobil 1 EP for vehicles under warranty?

[ April 06, 2005, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Bobio ]

 

[TheFuror]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gizzsdad:
Just talked to Mobil's help line to inquire as to availability of PDS's for EP line. He asked if my car was still in warranty. When I replied that it was, he said I CANNOT use EP until ALL manufacturer's warranties have expired because EP does not meet GL-4's fuel efficiency standards.

I don't have my owner's manual handy, but I would be shocked if it requires GL-4, but probably references the starburst. If I am not mistaken, arn't most of the premium oils we discuss here GL-3?

Sorry if this has been discussed, but this was news to me.

---

I don't know what year your Tahoe is, but the manual for my 5.3 04 Avalanche requires the use of an API oil that meets 1) the GM 6094 low temp pumpability standard; and 2) has that "starburst" symnbol for fuel efficiency, which the GF-3 oils met.

Sounds like the fellow at Mobil has his head up his, er, his head in the clouds....

Bob W.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

TheFuror: But the EP is not GF-3 either. That is the point. At least it does not mention GF3 on website, we'll see for sure when PDS comes out. I did look at one of the bottles too and I dont recall GF3. But I could be mistaken.
Hence not meeting mfr warranty requirement. Therefore the rep is correct. Except it's not really of a matter of you "CAN'T" but SHOULDN'T if you care about manufactures requirements. It's not due to functionality in the engine but politics mainly. I would use it though. Most likely the car dealer will never know what you used if it ever comes down to a possibly oil related failure unless you are dumb enough to tell them. Most likely they may not even ask.

 

[NewGuy]

Jason.....good point. I didn't understand that M1EP might not be GF-3. I wonder why they would do this? It will be interesting to see that TDS.

 

[Bobio]

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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The real issue seems to me, is of mileage during the warranty.

---

I think this is it in a nutshell. This oil is "garranteed" over the 15,000 miles. They don't want to be in conflict with the OEM warranty/recomendations.

It sounds that simple to me. It's not an "oil" issue ..it's a liability issue. That is, the guy wasn't being "wrong" ...just conditional.

 

[buster]

Realize in todays world everyone is looking for a nice lawsuit. I give credit for XOM in doing this. In fact, they did start off with 25k mile drains, but the automakers were not happy about it. When your factory fill in many cars around the world, you better listen to what they say.

This in turn helped Amsoil to whom I give tremendous credit for staying ahead of the curve with extended drains. But they were in a position where they had to do this otherwise their would be no reason for them to exist. Don't sweat the warranty/manual stuff....these synthetics can go the distance. 35k miles is a different story.

 

[ruking77]

Yeah, I think if one does not have warranty issues or concerns, both Mobil One and Mobil One EP are very formidable "arrows in the quiver" so to speak. Right now I have no issues taking Mobil One (say 5w30) to 15,000 mile OCI's. I started in 1986 with a 1987 Toyota Landcruiser. I dealt with a very progressive service advisor (who is now the Assistant Manager) who said they would honor the engine warranty 3/36k even with 15,000 mile OCI's. The real truth as he and I both knew at the time; engine warranty fulfillment is EXTREMELY rare. Also TLC in line 6 engines have a reputation for being bullet proof. Since this engine had a requirement for valve adjustment each 15k, his shop was in side the engine at least 16 times. Plenty of times his mechanics would tell him the engine was very close to new specifications even when approaching 250,000 miles. I have done this with subsequent TLC's and all in all, I have app 694,000 miles of Mobil One 5w30 with 15,000 mile OCI's.

If this can be done with the Mobil One, it would seem that with the new specification EP and higher premium (if you have an engine that can use it: such as the inline 6 Toyota Landcruiser engine) you are looking to do a min of 20,000 if not 25,000 miles OCI's. If I wanted to take that on as a project, obviously oil analysis at the 20,000 and 25,000 mile mark would probably be in order.

 

[TooSlick]

That's the most pathetic, CYA response I've ever heard from a supposed cutting edge corporation....

Of course you can use the EP formulations in any brand new engine without affecting the warranty. My only caveat would be to support any extended drain through the use of periodic oil analysis. If you don't exceed the manufacturers recommended service interval, this will be a non-issue.

This is supposed to be Mobils best synthetic oil - it d--- well better work in any modern engine.

Ted

 

[buster]

Amsoil would be doing the same exact thing if they were in Mobil's position or they would be dropped as factory fill. They would be forced to comply, period. I agree though, this oil better be f'n good. I guess we'll know if we start seeing high Fe.

 

[TEXDOG]

I think the old boy is cracked or they let some high school kid answer the phone. your car is not restricted to using SM oil only.

 

[NewGuy]

This is an interesting comment from Mobil. The owners manual for my '04 Tahoe has three requirements for oil: 0W/5W/10W30 grade, the oil must be API certified (does not require SM or SL), must meet GM6094M standard.

I wonder why Mobil is being so guarded in their suggestions for the EP products? If you use the selection guide on their website it will guide you to M1 if your car is still under warranty. If you say that your car is out of warranty, the flow chart directs you to M1EP as the ultimate protectant.

I agree that it is very strange!! TEXDOG is right though....you can use any oil that you want.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

He asked if my car was still in warranty. When I replied that it was, he said I CANNOT use EP until ALL manufacturer's warranties have expired because EP does not meet GL-4's fuel efficiency standards.
===============================================

Gizz

Call him back & ask for his name. Go the next step up the Mobil ladder & make known his name & what he said. He needs to be corrected by an authority there.

 

[TooSlick]

Buster,

That makes no sense at all, since the factory fill is the GF-4 stuff anyway. Does GM really care if you change to an even better version of Mobil 1 after the factory fill is drained?

You can be sure the GM lube engineers are running the EP stuff and not the GF-4 version in their personal vehicles. Of course those would be the ones not running Amsoil...

TS

 

[TooSlick]

I just wanted to add that the EP version of Mobil 1 is only about 80 cents more per quart at Walmart. Given that small price difference, I'd strongly recommend using the EP stuff, even if you don't plan on taking it out to 15,000 miles.

My suggestion is to run the EP stuff for 15,000 miles/1 year and do an annual oil analysis. That way you have documented proof that the oil is holding up fine in your engine. I've also recommended this to a number of Amsoil users who were initially uncomfortable with running extended service intervals on new vehicles.

Tooslick