Interesting info at Honda dealer

[PeterGreen]

does it go the other way? My 2012 Acura TL is spec'd for 5w20. can I switch to 0w20?

this is a hypothetical question as my next three ocs are in the basement in jugs already

 

[asharris7]

Yes you can

 

[CATERHAM]

What you don't understand is that while the motivation for developing lighter more advanced synthetic oils is fuel economy, engines run better on these oils. Since most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up, wear is reduced. The assumption that heavier oil protects better when a lighter oil has been specified is ignorance based and simply wrong.
We are fortunate that these advanced oils are priced reasonably in NA but they are either unavailable and/or uncompetitively priced in other parts of the world so they settle on cheaper, heavier dino lube's.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
What you don't understand is that while the motivation for developing lighter more advanced synthetic oils is fuel economy, engines run better on these oils. Since most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up, wear is reduced.


Really? So US vehicles outlast those globally? Where did you get that info from?

Also, why did the wording in many manuals change from "optimal protection" with the heavier oils to "adequate protection" with the new thinner ones?

 

[kschachn]

Honda uses that statement, but I have never seen where it changed as you say. Can you post examples of company propaganda that shows before and after?

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Also, why did the wording in many manuals change from "optimal protection" with the heavier oils to "adequate protection" with the new thinner ones?

 

[kschachn]

Because you made the statement, that's why.

Your explanation while somewhat sensational, gives no evidence whatsoever for your claim. It is all opinion.

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I just never get how that logic translates into the rest of the world being better, or "more correct". Can you elaborate on how we (here in the CAFE burdened US) are at a disadvantage because heavier weight oils are specified elsewhere?
Why would you ask me to defend the global choice of weights over the exception of the US? Anyone who thinks can easily make the connection that thinner and thinner oils in the US is ultimately borne of CAFE, not engine longevity. What does caFE stand for? (Hint - look at the last two letters in the acronym).

Can you elaborate on the logic that the global standard must be justified vs. CAFE? Instead of the other way around? The tail does not wag the dog.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
What you don't understand is that while the motivation for developing lighter more advanced synthetic oils is fuel economy, engines run better on these oils. Since most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up, wear is reduced.


CATERHAM, you keep spouting it, I'll keep asking for proof....and as always, you'll keep ignoring my request.

Please demonstrate the superiority of these lighter oils in industry standard "warm-up" tests such as the sequence IV, and while you are at it, explain WHY they do such expensive testing when they could simply look at the VI and say "that one wears better" ?

The oil is present in seconds in any real world start with any modern lubricant, to claim that OEM high VI 20s are there quicker in any meaningful way is disingenuous.

Then to claim that while they ARE there, during warmup, which you acknowledge is where the wear occurs, they somehow magically protect better than any other lubricant is putting an icecream cone on a donkey and saying that you've found a unicorn.

Again...bring out the test data, you know, science, numbers, that sort of thing.

 

[MajorCavalry]

Originally Posted By: PeterGreen
does it go the other way? My 2012 Acura TL is spec'd for 5w20. can I switch to 0w20?

this is a hypothetical question as my next three ocs are in the basement in jugs already


As far as I know, Acura still requires 5w-20 for the 3.7L engine in the 2012 AWD. Every document I have read does NOT mention back spec to 0W-20.

 

[wemay]

In the GRAND SCHEME...
Either (xw20 or xw30) will be indistinguishable from each other at start-up, warm-up and operating temps.

 

[EA82]

And just like many other threads, this has turned into a thick vs thin argument .

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: laserred96gt
And just like many other threads, this has turned into a thick vs thin argument .

tell me about it.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
CATERHAM, you keep spouting it, I'll keep asking for proof....and as always, you'll keep ignoring my request.


You new around here or something? You're supposed to just accept his opinion without letting facts get in the way. I mean come on, he says "clearly" a lot. Why isn't that good enough for you? You seem awfully pedantic, wanting actual proof and all.

 

[supton]

30 seconds of google-work indicates average age of a US car is 11+ years old, while average Euro age is 8 point something. A quick look for anual milage found 12kmiles for USA, but I had issues finding anual miles for the other side of the pond--but IIRC it was less than 12k/year. Which means we own longer and drive to higher miles. Inspite of weaker(?) oils.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: Redpatches
It's also nice to have the option to switch over to an 0W-20 for the coming winter even though winters here in New Jersey are for the most part pretty moderate.


Some days, every little bit helps.

I do like to run synthetics in the winter because it's hard to predict a respite in the weather to sneak in an oil change.

Whether 0W-20 or 5W-20 synthetic, I know an extra 1,000 miles isn't hurting anything.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It's nice to have a 5w20 conventional option for those of us who like shorter OCI's and more reasonable maintenance costs.


Depending on how often you change oil, you may be spending more to change it sooner with a less expensive oil. Especially if you change the oil filter every time, and factor that cost in.

I know I spend more money changing dino every 5k miles than I would changing synthetic every 10k miles. Dino is $18+$5 filter, or $46 every 10k miles. Synthetic would be $25+$10 filter (to splurge for the nice one), or $35 every 10k miles.

I know I spend more using less expensive oil at shorter intervals, but I do it anyway. I just like changing oil...

 

[wemay]

WALMART:

SuperTECH = $12.26
Mobil Super 5000 = $12.47
Quaker State Conventional = $13.26
Havoline = $13.26

SuperTECH syn = $17.97
M1 = $22.66 (sale) $25.26 (regular)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability = $21.97

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
What you don't understand is that while the motivation for developing lighter more advanced synthetic oils is fuel economy, engines run better on these oils. Since most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up, wear is reduced.


The oil is present in seconds in any real world start with any modern lubricant, to claim that OEM high VI 20s are there quicker in any meaningful way is disingenuous.

Don't make me laugh!
If there is a more disingenuous member on this forum than you I'd like to know who it is.
So define a "real world start with any modern lubricant"?
Even the lightest 0W-20 is heavier than optimum on start-up.
But even with a "modern" 5w30 the oil pump is going to be in by-pass mode immediately on start-up at 32F. Meaning oil flow is restricted and even you agree it's "bad" to run an engine in by-pass mode. And the more rev's one uses under these conditions the greater the possibility of increased engine wear.

Running a 0W-20 at least minimizes the time spent under these less than optimum lubrication conditions and more flexibility and less concern regarding a gradual warm-up regimen need be practiced. The fact is, since most drivers pay no heed to driving any differently when an engine is cold vs warm and a certain percentage will drive "like they stole it" from the moment the engine is started even red lining an engine stone cold. And that IMO is why the auto manufacturers claim the 0W-20 grade produces less engine wear.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It's nice to have a 5w20 conventional option for those of us who like shorter OCI's and more reasonable maintenance costs.


Depending on how often you change oil, you may be spending more to change it sooner with a less expensive oil. Especially if you change the oil filter every time, and factor that cost in.

I know I spend more money changing dino every 5k miles than I would changing synthetic every 10k miles. Dino is $18+$5 filter, or $46 every 10k miles. Synthetic would be $25+$10 filter (to splurge for the nice one), or $35 every 10k miles.

I know I spend more using less expensive oil at shorter intervals, but I do it anyway. I just like changing oil...



You're right.

It's a break even deal most of the time.

I've got around $7 in my most recent change on Camry #2 in my fleet.

$1/qt. Peak at Advance Auto teamed with a "free" FRAM OCOD from the Pep Boys PU deal a few months ago.

I added $2 for the FRAM because even an OCOD has to be worth something.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But even with a "modern" 5w30 the oil pump is going to be in by-pass mode immediately on start-up at 32F. Meaning oil flow is restricted and even you agree it's "bad" to run an engine in by-pass mode. And the more rev's one uses under these conditions the greater the possibility of increased engine wear.

Running a 0W-20 at least minimizes the time spent under these less than optimum lubrication conditions and more flexibility and less concern regarding a gradual warm-up regimen need be practiced. The fact is, since most drivers pay no heed to driving any differently when an engine is cold vs warm and a certain percentage will drive "like they stole it" from the moment the engine is started even red lining an engine stone cold. And that IMO is why the auto manufacturers claim the 0W-20 grade produces less engine wear.


Seat of the pants tests confirm this with my Camry's.

0W-20 Castrol Edge and a free flowing synthetic media filter deliver oil to the 2.5 liter 4 cyl. engine immediately.

Oddly, there are some members here that believe oil filters do not regularly go into bypass when oil is cold or thickened from contaminants.

I'm not in that camp and cannot imagine a cold oil system not blowing oil around the media through the bypass to keep an engine lubed at start up.

 

[Shannow]

CATERHAM, you like to wander off the point, and you are doing it again.

Again...

Facts
Data
Sequence IV, which is the industry standard warm up wear test.

Please...

As to the bypass being open, I have explained it over and over and over again...inefficient design to be on bypass, and a massive power loss equivalent to a single low beam headlight running.