Insane Electric Rate Increase $508.68/1522 kWh

Interesting thread... I'd say that's a lot of energy use for minimal use of the electric heat, and what sounds like pretty painstaking care to reduce the bill.

Based on a quick rough calculation, it looks like you're using an average of over 2 kWh per hour (2.1 or so), around the clock, which seems pretty high for light use of the resistive heating. Put another way, you've essentially got the equivalent of a 1500 watt heater running nonstop, plus some other more minor energy use. Perhaps thinking of it that way might provide some insight.

How much would you say the dehumidifiers are running (I saw the 12 hour figure, but how much of the time do the compressors run)? And what size/wattage are they? I wonder if those aren't a good chunk of your energy usage.

I'd guess that there's no way small things like turning down the TV brightness or swapping out a freezer bulb with an LED would have much of an impact at all compared to running three dehumidifiers, particularly if they're large/inefficient, or if they run a lot of the time (for example, if all three ran continuously, at 500 watts a piece, that'd be the lion's share of your energy use right there).
 
Gas heat here, but definitely not miserly on my electricity usage. Here's what my bill looks like:
Screen Shot 2023-01-31 at 11.23.34 PM.jpg


Which works out to an all-in rate, including taxes, delivery, regulatory charges, of $0.1376/kWh.
 
I used my oil filled radiator portable heater I have in my game room a little more than usual last month and my electric bill jumped $30. Remember those small vampire electric draws do add up during the month. I have a radon mitigation system in my house that's nothing more than a fan that runs all the time. It adds about $12 to my electric bill. I replaced the ten year old original one with a newer more efficient version last year. I added a washer, electric dryer along with a 16 cubic foot stand up freezer, as well as a second refrigerator in the basement and those three only added about $20 to my monthly electric bill. Yes I do buy in bulk, because I can get really great pricing locally on bulk meat. If you're in western Pa. check out Sprankles north of Pittsburgh and if you're in south central Pa. try out Fishers Country market in Bedford. They both advertise on Facebook.

You said that you shut off the electric heat in the rooms you don't use, do you have de-drafters under your doors? Even though I leave the vents open in the closed off rooms I have de-drafters under the doors. There is a definite 10-15 degree difference between the rest of the house and those closed off cooler rooms.

BTW my girlfriend is at her wits end with her two boys leaving the lights and TV's on constantly. Last week the little one 9 years old was over at his dads, we came home around 10:00 and the oldest 20 yrs was out with his friends. We walk in to her house, the kitchen lights are all on, the older boys bedroom lights are on, the TV in his room was also on, and the TV in the living room was on. Her whole house is electric except the gas furnace.

You might have to get as mean as Pittsburgh Dad when it comes to yelling at the family for leaving lights on.

 
While it may not matter much, sometimes heat pumps can suck in light snow and clog. As the snow remains frozen on the heat exchanger. So, there is that downside.

That should trigger a defrost cycle on the units with demand defrost. On the units with timed defrost, well, they'll just have poor performance till the timer calls for a defrost cycle.
 
You have to start somewhere. Not doing anything but complaining gets you nowhere. Decide what you think would help the most, and do it! The feds have plans that will cover up to 30% of some things. Do actual calculations and figure it out! You keep harping on the hot water heater, look at it first and see how it comes out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JC1
Interesting thread... I'd say that's a lot of energy use for minimal use of the electric heat, and what sounds like pretty painstaking care to reduce the bill.

Based on a quick rough calculation, it looks like you're using an average of over 2 kWh per hour (2.1 or so), around the clock, which seems pretty high for light use of the resistive heating. Put another way, you've essentially got the equivalent of a 1500 watt heater running nonstop, plus some other more minor energy use. Perhaps thinking of it that way might provide some insight.

How much would you say the dehumidifiers are running (I saw the 12 hour figure, but how much of the time do the compressors run)? And what size/wattage are they? I wonder if those aren't a good chunk of your energy usage.

I'd guess that there's no way small things like turning down the TV brightness or swapping out a freezer bulb with an LED would have much of an impact at all compared to running three dehumidifiers, particularly if they're large/inefficient, or if they run a lot of the time (for example, if all three ran continuously, at 500 watts a piece, that'd be the lion's share of your energy use right there).

Great thoughts.

The times for operation are a pretty good estimate. The time the compressor actually operates is unknown. I posted the running watts earlier:

Basement Dehumidifier: 236W running, 51W fan only

Main BR Dehumidifier: 201W running, 20W fan only.

I have a 3rd that I run in the living room for around 5 hrs some days. That one runs at 233W running, 44W fan only.

If my math is correct, I’d use 0.670kW for an estimated 8 hrs/day, including a fudge factor, gets it to 170 kWh/month. Thats $57 with this month’s rates. Add another $10 as an additional fudge factor and that‘s still less than 13% of the bill.

Now, the basement dehumidifier can be adjusted, maybe, but the main bathroom and living room dehumidifiers: their waste heat is added to the room. I know I’m a miser, but a small amount of heated added to each room isn‘t a bad thing. I may prefer 50F, but that’s pushing it for my wife. She definitely prefers closer to 60F.
 
In the PNW, I pay 0.10252/kwh. I guess I can thank consistent hydropower (snowpack run-off) and a small % from wind turbines.

I pulled a 2-yr histogram of my 1997-built, 2650 sq ft. 2-story home off the SnoPUD site, with "Avg Temp" shown as a trend line against "kwh":

1675228570575.png

Notes: We have a 3-ton central A/C used occasionally in the summer, as it can get into the 90s, even 100s, here. I also fully-insulated the attached garage last summer, and also installed a 96% efficient gas furnace in June 2022. The temperature has been getting more extreme, both high and low, in the last few years. Before it would be rare to get below freezing, now we can get into the high teens in the winter. Conversely, high 80s used to be the norm, now we can get into the 90s for more than a week in the summer, with the occasional spike into the 100s. No basement here, just crawl space.
 
Last edited:
You have to start somewhere. Not doing anything but complaining gets you nowhere. Decide what you think would help the most, and do it! The feds have plans that will cover up to 30% of some things. Do actual calculations and figure it out! You keep harping on the hot water heater, look at it first and see how it comes out.

Is that meant for me? I just got the bill today (well, it’s 0025, so yesterday). I posted soon after I got the bill. The rates surprised even me. I expected $350-$400.

70% of $700 to $1500 is, uh, still a good chunk of change for a water heater, NOT including install.

I’m an engineer. Calc’s for all of the minor things that add up to 1522 kWh isn’t clear cut. 1552 isn’t even a lot. The rate change is the point of this thread. The provided data, anecdotes and request for advice on excessive energy use is ancillary. Most advice is pretty common sense. So…instead of condescension, what’s your actual advice? For a 15 yo heater at a 122F setpoint, can you calculate the ROI if I get a good estimate on GPD?
 
Last edited:
Our rates went up last summer. We are electric everything minus the furnace. July and August was $360ish a month. Last Fall was pretty mild with a few colder days here and there. Even with running our wood stove with our heat turned off as well as our new hybrid electric water heater, we were still at around $220. Prior to the rate increase, $200 was pretty much the norm even during the summer months with our old electric water heater.

Kw average usage is down from what I assume is because of the new water heater. We are about 300 below our average usage.

*$20 of my bill is meter rental. $10 for the house and $10 for my pole barn. I have a friend who’s meter rental is $50 and he has 2 as well so I guess I am doing pretty good.
 
Last edited:
The dehumidifier adds heat to the space and dehumidifies. A heat pump will only add heat, so if we don’t want to maintain a warm space, the heat pump will just sit there unused, and then humidity is still a concern.

If we used the heat pump to maintain a temp higher than what we’re maintaining now, it would most certainly do so more efficiently than resistive heat, and the higher temp would result in lower RH, but the additional energy to maintain a higher temp than we want outweighs the energy used to only maintain the RH SAT.

Also, if the temp is too high and the RH too low, it’ll cost additional energy to use a humidifier.

I usually have very dry skin and eczema on my knuckles. Since we lowered the temp in the house I’ve had zero issues, even with the absurdly dry air at work.
But are you sure at heat pump set at 60-65 degrees would require more energy than the dehumidifier combined with resistively heated mattresses?

I live in leaky home in the damp southeast and I understand what you're saying about homes becoming too dry. The winter rain is a welcome occurrence because our indoor humidity will rise to around 50 percent at 60-65 degrees.

If it's an affordability thing I get it. Nobody wants to drop a few thousand if they don't need to regardless of how long they intent on remaining in the home.
 
Last edited:
Buy yourself a "Kill-A-Watt" meter and check those de-humidifiers, I've seen larger ones pull over 1000 watts, but the watt meter will let you know where your surprise consumption devices are. Anything with a resistive heat element is extremely inefficient but I wouldn't say you have a consumption problem since you use half the Kwh an average household does.
 
We were warned last year that rates would be going up this month. We have all electric everything, including baseboard heat.

Last month: $0.2320/kWh overall (supply + delivery)

This month: $0.3342/kWh

Increase: 44% overall (supply rate $361.95, Delivery $146.73 = $508.68)
Yikes, your rates and your rate increase is insane, for fun, I pulled up our highest electric bill for the year 2022, 3000 sq ft home, middle of a HOT South Carolina summer, 2 central AC units. We never ever open our windows.
I tried to get one exactly at your usage but could only come up with a bill with more usage and one with less, so I took my highest usage bill for the year and here it is.
1724 kWh =

Screenshot 2023-02-01 at 8.22.37 AM.png


____________________________
Below is my lowest bill for the year, coming out of winter, gas heat main level, heat pump second level.
Im showing you this because every year our electric CO-OP returns money to us that they didnt need from last years billing.
So every March we get a credit on our bill, one year, we had 1.5 months of free electric.
Screenshot 2023-02-01 at 8.26.52 AM.png
 
Last edited:
I used to have an eccentric friend who lived in Claremont, New Hampshire. He lived in a small, one floor oil heated home. He was what we called "morbidly thrifty".

He had no conventional lamps. Only night lights. He disconnected the electricity from his stove to keep the clock from drawing electricity. His summer monthly usage was 90 kwh per month, winter it would go up to around 110 per month. We used to call him "milliwatt Rob". He even removed the bulb from inside his refrigerator.

If you drove past his house at night, you would see no lights from inside the house. And if you looked at the electric meter on the side of his house, the disk was often not moving at all.

He was an avid Rush Limbaugh listener, claimed to be "conservative". I used to tell him that Al Gore was coming to his house to give him a medal for having such a small carbon footprint. Made him mad when I would tell him that.
 
In light of the electric bill and KWh used, it's obvious heat is a major factor. In fact, heating of any sort, even if the home is kept cool, is a major energy consumer (BTU) in the USA. More than all cars on the road. The North East corridor is the largest energy consuming section of the USA.

The work around has long been cheap energy in the form of NG (cheap propane in some locations) and even coal in the PA area.

But things are changing, and energy cost, in the form of delivered BTU's is becoming more even.

What's going to happen is that people are going to suffer due to affordability of energy.

As unfortunate as it sounds, in light of inflation everywhere, the solutions are to earn more money and pay for, or invest in, what you have to. The options for cheap energy are dwindling. Especially in the NY area, with fracking bans locally and now in PA.

Keep in mind that some areas of the NE only get 2.2 hours of daily solar insolation, on average, in the winter. This makes solar a very poor work around for heating. As it cannot reasonably provide sufficient energy.
 
Last edited:
I’ve been using my watt meter to check various loads. I havent checked the upstairs fridge nor chest freezer, but the downstairs fridge shows the following:

Compressor off: 68W
Compressor on: 203W
I'm having trouble understanding why a refrigerator would be using 68W with the compressor off. I would think that it would be a lot less, like something close to nothing unless a fan or light bulb was on inside it (which I have my doubts should ever be the case). Now if it were a freezer, I could see a use case for the defrost timer, but this is supposedly a refrigerator.
 
I see two pieces of low hanging fruit .

Get a quality drying rack and air dry some clothes - it's way better for the fabric anyway
A little harder on the dehumidifiers, but you should save a bit overall.

Like John Galt says- usually with electric heat you are usually looking for more humidity did you flip this by any chance?

You can probably skip washing the dishes prior to washing the dishes - just scrape off the plates into the trash and load them up
I haven't pre washed dishes in 20 years.

Get a kill-o watt and rotate it around your house to look at what things are really costing you to run.
Dried many loads on racks in the EU - and have a clothesline at home - not for everything - but many things …
 
The work around has long been cheap energy in the form of NG (cheap propane in some locations) and even coal in the PA area.
This is a big concern of mine. as you know we are moving to a new home near the coast of NC.
Last house was electric and NG. When I lived in NY it was either NG or Oil.

The new house will have Propane. I cant believe they are building a whole community and this is supposed to be considered an upgrade?
Heat with be a heat pump. But to me I rather the rest just be electric. I dont get the LP thing. By the time you are done with the delivery ect from a retailer is is really less expensive having a propane stove, Propane Fireplace (which will be rarely used) and propane tankless hot water?

The only advantage I can think of is it because of coastal storms where you would still have a stove, hot water and fireplace?
Anyway, just not crazy as to what I think might be the cost vs if the house was just electric. Dont get me wrong, I would take NG any day.
BUt propane I think of small retailers charging high prices, unless it is the whole coastal thing.
 
On the heat side - you'd do well to have at least one if not a couple kerosene heaters.

There is a reason they are so popular in Japan. They work very well.

A big dynaglow in basement throws out a ton of heat, while helping to dry things out - and the directional units in a living room or bedroom are awesome.

They are good to have around in case you power company decides to turn off the taps.
 
I did forget to mention the wood stove, and it is a consideration. We actually just had the badly damaged chimney to the stove repaired last year and I have a couple of trees that are too bit and should probably come down, but I don’t have experience with that. I’ve only ever cut down smaller trees, like mature apple trees that were easy to limb and take apart.

The stove is also in the basement on the other side of the house from the room, with the only airflow via a small grate and the stairs to the basement. I’d have to use fans to really get the heat to the rooms I believe. With that said, every house I’ve ever been in with a wood stove this size (and smaller) put out a TON of heat.

This solution will likely make it warmer overall, but with such little use of the heat as is, I’m not sure it makes financial sense. I guess I could save the wood for when family is over and emergencies.
I get quite a bit of my firewood from my more urban family and friends who don't burn wood when they get a tree taken down. Some arborists seem to charge a lot for "disposal". They grind the little stuff up and take it away but not the firewood size stuff. So I'll take it away for free in my little trailer just doing a trip a day after work so I'm not wasting much extra time or gas to get it. My trailer does about 800-1000 lbs at once so its an easy tow behind my Focus, and then my atv to the backyard, but still a good pile of wood.
Also I've had an arborist come and flop a couple really big trees and its pretty cheap way to get a couple cords "delivered".
I did buy a good large saw 20 years ago now so its easy to dice up almost any size wood with it, and I like splitting wood with a maul. The real tough chunks get split by the saw.
I think the real advantage of the woodstove and your own wood supply is that you can have whatever temperature you want, whenever you want, and it just costs you some exercise, and you're independent of the utilities.
 
Dried many loads on racks in the EU - and have a clothesline at home - not for everything - but many things …

Now with the kids gone we rack dry everything but towels/washcloths, napkins, and bed sheets.

It's got nothing to do with money and everything to do with garment care.
In the summer it's dry as a bone here and it ads a little moisture and keeps the dryer from adding heat to the house.

I have silkscreen T shirts that are 20 years old that still look great.
Anything with elastic in it will simply last a lot longer.

OF course it helps that my washer will spin at 1600 RPM so the clothes come out very dry already.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top